Becoming God...my first trip

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, it still has its old memories, beliefs, langauge, etc.

You don't all the sudden start thinking in Chinese.

Hmm, some trips on higher doses into the ego death range it seems beliefs dissolve and language is bizarre. Sometimes it's like the mind is working in strange images or symbols. Time is distorted, sound becomes form, multiple realities exist simultaneously, objects merge and become formless etc. The mind feels more like a schizophrenic mind than my sober mind.

From your previous post, it seems that the bizarre images and symbols seem extraordinary, yet arise from the underlying framework of my mind. To me, the subjective experience feels so beyond the natural workings of my mind. Sometimes it doesn't seem to be related at all to any of my conditioning in life regarding beliefs on religion, science etc.

[Forestluv]

@Samra Similar to your friend, during my Aya ceremonies I had strong CEVs yet virtually no OEVs. During two of three ceremonies, I experienced nonduality and a collective empathy with the group.

I found that lying down intensifies the experience. As well, if my mind is still in a rational/logical mindset I would drink a second serving.

[Samra]

@Serotoninluv I was lying down most of the time also. On the second night, I had a mini second dose, and it resulted to a bad trip after the ceremony. But that could be because I was trying to control too much. I still don't understand what it means to have a trip with no visuals. Even my bad trip was with visuals. I guess I just need to experiment until I get it. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Samra

[Vladimir]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

As far as interpreting imagery goes, the human mind can only understand reality via images and symbols. That's what understanding is regardless of whether it is scientific or spiritual understanding, literal or poetic. There really isn't a difference between literal and poetic understanding. So the mind, especially during a trip, will use whatever images it can to understand the vast complexity of reality. All sorts of strange symbols and images can arise, and they are all relative to that mind's intellectual framework. Truth and wisdom will be communicated in whatever way works FOR THAT MIND. To a Christian mind it might be the face of Jesus, to a Hindu mind it might be the face of Vishnu, to an atheist mind it might be a mathematical formula or a logical axiom, etc.

All of it is just arbitrary symbols which only have meaning relatively, WITHIN the framework of that person's mind. It's like a language, which only makes sense and has meaning to those people who speak the language. To an outsider, it is just noise.

15 hours ago, phoenix666 said:

oh wow, really? I'm sorry to hear that. it's hard for me to fathom, cause I've had such a great experience on aya and it has already changed my life for the better after only 3 weeks. I'm still feeling the aftershocks and the world just keeps getting more mystical, magic and full of love. 

how exactly are you experiencing PTSD? (please don't feel obligated to share, only if you want and if you feel that it could help you dealing with it <3) 

I had absolutely no problem with Ayahuasca visions until I started getting combinations of these colors: yellow/orange/red/black (I have associated these combinations with Hell because of playing too much Diablo), I think there was also some kind of spherical pattern about it and the whole thing reminded me of a burning oven....This with the combination of realization that "it was me the whole time" and "I'm part of everything" is what terrified me and I still don't know what to make of it, but I think it's really important to be mindful of symbols (colors and simple shapes being the most powerful symbols) and associate them with things that we want, off and on trips. It took me about a year to recover from that trip and it's the reason I wasn't able to break through on a 5meo-dmt because it threw my right back into it. After a while I started feeling this really uncomfortable sensation in my solar plexus that feels like tension/burning and it seems to intensify every time I have flash backs of the experience....Also I couldn't focus on work or anything for some months because I kept living in fear. 

I've since had another intense 11 day retreat with Ayahuasca/San Pedro/Yopo/Kambo ceremonies, and I'm doing better now....

 

[Vladimir]

6 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Hmm, some trips on higher doses into the ego death range it seems beliefs dissolve and language is bizarre. Sometimes it's like the mind is working in strange images or symbols. Time is distorted, sound becomes form, multiple realities exist simultaneously, objects merge and become formless etc. The mind feels more like a schizophrenic mind than my sober mind.

From your previous post, it seems that the bizarre images and symbols seem extraordinary, yet arise from the underlying framework of my mind. To me, the subjective experience feels so beyond the natural workings of my mind. Sometimes it doesn't seem to be related at all to any of my conditioning in life regarding beliefs on religion, science etc.

To me it becomes "dream like" and everything you described with distortions or time and objects, I found it easier to stay focused if I was sitting up, when I was laying down it would be a lot easier to get "dragged" into one of those dreams without even becoming aware of it....If you're lying down a good strategy to keep focused is keep both hands on a solar plexus and breathing, in shamanism it's called "introspection" - staying within the framework of the body so you don't get too "out there".

[GafaRassaDaba]

@Vladimir Hope you're doing ok Vladimir. I have that pain in my stomach too, ever since my trips. I don't know if this is true, but upon months of meditation and several reiki sessions I think it is stored anger. I have a lot of anger and in my fourth trip I tried and tried to let it out but it never came. I'm going to continue working with it. I'm not saying yours is anger but maybe it could be some unresolved emotions or clogged energy. I'm no expert or anything but I definently know the feeling. I'm glad you're doing better. Keep taking care of yourself, brother.

✌ and ❤

-There is no God...there is only God.

[Vladimir]

42 minutes ago, GafaRassaDaba said:

@Vladimir Hope you're doing ok Vladimir. I have that pain in my stomach too, ever since my trips. I don't know if this is true, but upon months of meditation and several reiki sessions I think it is stored anger. I have a lot of anger and in my fourth trip I tried and tried to let it out but it never came. I'm going to continue working with it. I'm not saying yours is anger but maybe it could be some unresolved emotions or clogged energy. I'm no expert or anything but I definently know the feeling. I'm glad you're doing better. Keep taking care of yourself, brother.

✌ and ❤

-There is no God...there is only God.

Yeah brother I definitely accumulated a lot of anger over a life time, some of it started coming out at a jungle ayahuasca retreat last year and I ended up scaring a bunch of "pasajeros". I feel like it was only a tip of the iceberg LOL

But yeah I'm doing better, I'm wanting to do a long term dieta in the jungle next, let me know if anyone wants to come with

[phoenix666]

8 hours ago, Vladimir said:

I had absolutely no problem with Ayahuasca visions until I started getting combinations of these colors: yellow/orange/red/black (I have associated these combinations with Hell because of playing too much Diablo), I think there was also some kind of spherical pattern about it and the whole thing reminded me of a burning oven....This with the combination of realization that "it was me the whole time" and "I'm part of everything" is what terrified me and I still don't know what to make of it, but I think it's really important to be mindful of symbols (colors and simple shapes being the most powerful symbols) and associate them with things that we want, off and on trips. It took me about a year to recover from that trip and it's the reason I wasn't able to break through on a 5meo-dmt because it threw my right back into it. After a while I started feeling this really uncomfortable sensation in my solar plexus that feels like tension/burning and it seems to intensify every time I have flash backs of the experience....Also I couldn't focus on work or anything for some months because I kept living in fear. 

I've since had another intense 11 day retreat with Ayahuasca/San Pedro/Yopo/Kambo ceremonies, and I'm doing better now....

 

thanks, for sharing <3

sounds really intense. yeah, colors and symbols can be really powerful. I also noticed that I have a lot more associations between sounds, colors and shapes since tripping. I see interconnections where I didn't see any before. 

I know what you're talking about with hell. I've felt it too on a particularly strong shroom trip twice. but somehow I managed to surrender fully to it until it actually became heaven, so the positive prevailed for me in the end.

I hope this will be the case for you too.

I wish you all the best, Vladimir. we' re alone on our journey, but somehow we're all in this together <3

I would like to do a such retreat in the jungle as well.. where have you done or planned to do that? in south america? I hope I can find something here in Europe, I can't afford to fly to Peru (yet)..

[Vladimir]

10 hours ago, phoenix666 said:

thanks, for sharing <3

sounds really intense. yeah, colors and symbols can be really powerful. I also noticed that I have a lot more associations between sounds, colors and shapes since tripping. I see interconnections where I didn't see any before. 

I know what you're talking about with hell. I've felt it too on a particularly strong shroom trip twice. but somehow I managed to surrender fully to it until it actually became heaven, so the positive prevailed for me in the end.

I hope this will be the case for you too.

I wish you all the best, Vladimir. we' re alone on our journey, but somehow we're all in this together <3

I would like to do a such retreat in the jungle as well.. where have you done or planned to do that? in south america? I hope I can find something here in Europe, I can't afford to fly to Peru (yet)..

Yeah I've done one in the jungle in Iquitos and another one in Sacred Valley, just came back from that one about a month ago. My X is doing a dieta in Iquitos right now and so far she's told me the shaman is the real deal...I think I might go there next if her scouting mission proves successful lol In my experience it's very difficult to find shamans that are truly interested in healing you, there is a lot of power games spiritual and financial...and you never know just wtf those shamans are doing to you, so you gotta find someone you can fully trust, I'm actually thinking of brewing my own now, but I'd like to get some more practice with AL-LAD and mushrooms first.

[phoenix666]

12 hours ago, Vladimir said:

Yeah I've done one in the jungle in Iquitos and another one in Sacred Valley, just came back from that one about a month ago. My X is doing a dieta in Iquitos right now and so far she's told me the shaman is the real deal...I think I might go there next if her scouting mission proves successful lol In my experience it's very difficult to find shamans that are truly interested in healing you, there is a lot of power games spiritual and financial...and you never know just wtf those shamans are doing to you, so you gotta find someone you can fully trust, I'm actually thinking of brewing my own now, but I'd like to get some more practice with AL-LAD and mushrooms first.

oh really, a lot of power games and money stuff going on even in this field? shit, I didn't expect that. but yeah, I can imagine, you never know what they're doing to you I guess it's difficult to find someone you can trust blindly. also because of our own projections and insecurities. 

yeah, I've actually thought about brewing my own too. after my last experiences I'm not sure I wanna trip in front others. I like doing things alone. I've had very good and quite deep experiences with AL-LAD. much easier and less murky than mushrooms.

[Nahm]

@Vladimir Bit of a different ‘angle’ but consider making a stop / start list, for changes in life. 

[GafaRassaDaba]

nimeakaya.org

[Forestluv]

On 8/31/2018 at 11:32 AM, Samra said:

@Serotoninluv I still don't understand what it means to have a trip with no visuals. Even my bad trip was with visuals. I guess I just need to experiment until I get it. 

For example: You are in a cafe and reality becomes a computer simulation. Not in a “cool! Life is like a simultation! Fun!” kind of way. More like omg this is *real*. I don’t know how to deal with this. The waiter comes and looks deep into your being. He is the only one not part of the simulation and he knows you are also not part of the simulation. Yet you don’t know if he is a friend or an adversary. You don’t know your role within the simulation. Your realize your friend that you came to the lounge with is also a simulation. Only you and the waiter are real. His gaze is so intense, he can see all of you. 

Not a single visual, yet an intense lesson on how reality is a dream.  This happened to me in a cafe in Colombia. I was within inches of panic and freaking out. I ended up walking out of the cafe and sitting on a bench in a small park.

[Samra]

@Serotoninluv  aaaaaaaah! I think i have had a small glimpse of that state. probably distracted myself from going there because of fear. Thank you so much for explaining it to me  

[SageModeAustin]

This made me feel sad, happy, and disappointed at the same time. I think i experienced a little bit of your trip just reading that. 

[Thanatos13]

@Serotoninluv if you want to interpret it that way then it does make a good story.  But not really a lesson in anything . 

For me such experiences are like water off a ducks back or flowing rivers. They come, they go, and they have no value or meaning unless I give them one. 

[Mu_]

On 8/29/2018 at 4:38 PM, GafaRassaDaba said:

Hey Leo and friends, here it is...need help understanding.

I took my drink of Ayahuasca and sat back. The shamans started singing and I disappeared. I'm going to skip all the details on the visuals and go straight to the big thing...myself inside the maze. I have no idea how long it took to get there or how long I was there, but it literally felt like forever. I saw the maze in the distance and I curiously regarded it. "What is that?" Suddenly I was inside it; a spinning, perfectly balanced, folding, and unfolding maze that was alive in every way. I realized I was truly and utterly alone. "I'm in eternity..." Suddenly it dawned on me. I had not arrived at eternity, I had never left...I got very scared. I knew I had never existed. I knew the world, my life, my family, my country, it had all been an elaborate fiction I had created to escape the maze. I was terrified and I fought it tooth and nail. "I had a Dad," I said aloud. "I know I was real." I saw my Dad then, in perfect form before me, and my heart sank as he disintegrated and became part of the eternal spinning paradox loop where I was trapped. I heard my own voice in my head. "There is no Dad. You made that up."

I thought of my Uncle, and saw him appear...and disintegrate into the maze. I fought harder and harder. I literally screamed and kicked and bit and thrashed around as the facillitators carried me out of the room. At first I thought they were doctors pulling me from my mother, then that they were gods taking care of me, then that they were demons tormenting me in their maze. They disappeared and I returned to the hell of non-existence. "I had a brother!"

"There is no brother. You made him up."

"I'm thinking in english!"

"There is no english. You made it up."

I literally screamed out that I remembered Batman.

"There is no Batman. You made him up."

"I know there's no Batman! He was a comic book character!"

"There are no comic books. You made them up."

On and on this went for eternity. I went through every single meaningful memory I could think of and every single meaningless fact I could think of, often repeating the same ones.

"I'm real! I had a father! I had a brother! I had an Uncle, a job, a girlfriend!"

"You made it all up."

The voice speaking to me (my own voice) was perfectly calm. No matter how hard I fought or how much I screamed it just calmly told me that I made it all up. I knew I was stuck...or that I had never left. My life had been a fiction to escape the ever changing nature of the maze. I wanted to go back so bad. I knew the truth finally; I was insane, in a straight jacket strapped to a table.

"There is no table."

I knew I was in a dream.

"There are no dreams."

I knew I was trapped.

"There are no traps."

I saw a giant face finally, watching me, as I thrashed on the ground. It looked like an ancient mayan god, one that might be painted on an ancient pyramid. I was amazed at how massive it was; and at how neutral it was to me. I realized it was not there to help or to hurt, it didn't care or not care, it didn't love or hate, it was neither friend nor foe...it only observed. I knew that begging it was useless. I knew it didnt care. But I also knew it would not harm me. It didn't not care.

I felt like I was in a movie, a psychological thriller where the main character finally figures out the plot. I felt like I had seen this movie a billion billion times. I remembered this place. Even though the maze was old it never repeated itself. It was ancient but always new. And the movie was real.

EVERYTHING is fiction. EVERYTHING is imagination. EVERYTHING is false. It's just your imagination.

I never gave up. I never stopped fighting. I threw everything I had at the maze. It all just disentegrated and became part of it. Even my body was dancing and moving and transforming just like the halls of the living labyrinthe. I couldnt stop any of it. I was powerless before the might of eternal neutrality. I finally knew the great joke. Me. The great question. There is no question. The great answer. There is no answer. I was the joke. I was the question. I was the answer. I realized I was God. Everything that existed was my imagination, MY joke, MY question, MY answer. There was no God outside of myself. There were no people outside of myself. There is not a single fucking blade of grass, not a single sub atomic particle, not a thought, a word, or a deed ANYWHERE that is not inside me. I had to walk far into the jungle by myself once it was all over. I knew that any second I was going to reach the end of reality and that I would be looking at the end of the earth (the end of my imagination). I didn't luckily. I slowly drifted back into reality the further and further I walked. My heart pounded for about 8 hours a day for 2 months straight after that. I was always on the verge of a panic attack and once I was very close to calling 911 because I thought reality was going to break and I was going to realize I was flying around in a spaceship inside some sick life simulation test. I have never in my life been this terrified. It still scares me and I don't understand. How can there be nothing but me? How can I be God? Sounds like very dangerous territory and I do not want to believe it. Any and all thoughts and feedback are welcome. Thank you, Leo and friends. I anxiously await your responses.

 

-There is no God...there is ONLY God.

 

 

I lost it when you said there is no batman.  I think the one thing you missed that is important that can ground it for you is, it is all real, this right now, your family, your friends, your life, your past struggles, your current ones, youve got nothing to be afraid of in it all.  Its all an illusion AND its all real. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Mu_

[GafaRassaDaba]

Yeah the Batman part is pretty fucking ridiculous lol ???

[Mu_]

6 hours ago, GafaRassaDaba said:

Yeah the Batman part is pretty fucking ridiculous lol ???

Lol, I'm still chuckling about that.  My wife had a similar experience to yours now that I've recalled her ayahusca experience, she couldn't hold onto the notion of me, herself, family, anything, she didnt know  where she was, it was the most terrifying thing she said she ever did and she didn't couldn't synthisis anything out of it, it just scared her, but did leave her with a appreciation for things when everything returned    She is also able to do interesting shamanic healing work intuitively now, even though she has no training,  So maybe there was something that came through in her experience.

So is your reality relatively back to normal at this point?  Do certain things linger?  You still trying to understand? I'm curious.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Mu_

[GafaRassaDaba]

@Mu_ Back to normal? I would have to say no, but not in a bad way. I definently feel like my experience changed me forever. My life is honestly drastically better. I am always constantly trying to understand as the psychadelics opened me up to worlds and dimensions I could never have possibly imagined. Witnessing the eternal and the infinite is so drastic that it is literally beyond words. People have spent lifetimes trying to figure it out and have gotten nowhere, and that's how it feels. It feels like no matter how much thinking, studying, working, or contemplating you do you just have to let go. It's far to big to be contained and it's also far too small to be observed. I'm still integrating the experience, and as scary as it was, it has been overwhelmingly positive :-)

 

Thanks, friend.

 

-There is no God...there is only God.