Shanmugam

The Cult of Sadhguru and Isha Foundation

116 posts in this topic

15 hours ago, Key Elements said:

This is a very interesting and a very complex clip. I'd like to comment on it.

I agree with the first half of the clip. It basically relates to the saying, "Those who fail to understand history are bound to repeat it." In other words, it's important to understand history without judging it too much and make wise choices.

The second half I don't agree with. Of course, if you take away the police from big cities like New York, within 3 hrs, lots of crime will happen. It's obvious. The same is true for big cities like New Delhi and Mumbai. Crimes are very high there, esp. New Delhi. It's not a good comparison. It's very, very complicated to compare cities and countries across the world. You could read many books on it and watch as many videos on it, and you still won't get it. Imo, the best thing to do is to travel there, live there for decades, become Indian, and transend both cultures. Then, you'll understand. Don't be afraid to step outside of your own backyard. If you remove all the police from Hopkinsville, KY, for example, it's not the same as removing them from LA.

I watched the first 30 minutes of the video.. So far, I found Kangana Ranaut (the woman in the program) sounding more spiritual than Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev himself.. She seems to see any kind of identification with nation, race, religion etc as the source of hatred. But throughout the talk, Sadhguru is insisting that India is the best country in the world. I really don't agree with this over-promotion of India. Because, in an attempt to glorify India he says incorrect things about India, and even over exaggerating. For eg, In one video he said that Darwin's evolutionary theory was stated by Indians 15,000 years before.. He used the 10 avatar concept as a symbolic representation of Darwin's theory. But in reality, 10 avatars are cherry picked and rearranged version of an original 24 avatar concept. This 24 avatar concept is in a totally different order. It was only later, especially after Darwin's time, the 10 avatar concept was born. Without knowing this, Sadhguru even went ahead and said that 'adiyogi' said Darwin's evolution theory 15,000 years before.. I have written about it here: http://qr.ae/TUI6vM

I had already questioned his version of adiyogi story. His comments on evolution theory seems to indicate that this adiyogi story was his own creation. (There is indeed a concept of adiyogi in our tradition; but that is a lot different from and simple than the sadhguru's version). In the last 200 years, many people are known to invent such things to glorify India and most of them are baseless. They just take an ambiguous verse from a scripture out of context and interpret that in a way that suits their intention. Since I know basic Sanskrit myself, I can say that such interpretations are actually very funny. Sadhguru seems to be more supportive of the political party that is ruling our country, which also supports the ideology that Indians are better than the rest of the world. 


Shanmugam 

Subscribe to my Youtube channel for videos regarding spiritual path, psychology, meditation, poetry and more: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwOJcU0o7xIy1L663hoxzZw?sub_confirmation=1 

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7 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Sadhguru is insisting that India is the best country in the world

@Shanmugam  Do you agree that if he speaks like Osho , it will become difficult for him to survive in India ?

PLEASE FORGIVE THE POOR INDIANS. They don t have anything else to brag about. You can brag about other things: money, power, atomic or hydrogen bombs, airplanes, that you have walked on the moon, that you have penetrated to the very secrets of life, your science, technology; you can brag about your affluence. Poor India has nothing else to brag about; it can only brag about something invisible so there is no need to prove it. Spirituality is such a thing you can brag about it and nobody can prove it, nobody can disprove it.

For thousands of years India has suffered starvation, poverty, so much so that it has to rationalize it. It has rationalized it so that to be poor is something spiritual. The Indian spiritual man renounces all comforts and becomes poor. When he becomes poor, only then do Indians recognize him as spiritual. If he does not become poor, how can he be spiritual?

Poverty has become the very foundation of Indian spirituality. The more poor you are, the more spiritual you are. Even if you are unhealthy, that is good for being spiritual; that shows your antagonism towards the body. Torture your body, fast, don't eat, don't fulfill the needs of the body, and you are doing some spiritual work.

So you will look at Indian so-called spiritual saints and many of them will look physically ill, in deep suffering, in self-torture; their faces are pale because of fasting. But if you ask their disciples they will say, "Look, what a golden aura around the face of our saint!" I know such people -- just a feverish aura around their faces, nothing else! But their disciples will say, "A golden aura -- this is spirituality!"

~Osho

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6 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

@Shanmugam  Do you agree that if he speaks like Osho , it will become difficult for him to survive in India ?

 

6 hours ago, Shanmugam said:

yes...

Good question and good points. The next step is to become an entrepreneur guru, like Baba Ramdev or Sai Baba, without being corrupt. I'm not sure how open Sadhguru is to that and if it's going to work out like that. :D And then, he could start speaking differently, and not in stage blue glory.  It's hard to get past the corrupt orange corporation. Society cannot be orange otherwise the orange ppl appointed will run the show. It's best to promote true spirituality, which has to be done in a very tactful way to uplift society. Which is why, if you realize this, it starts with you. Probably, they don't realize. Even Baba Ramdev may not realize because he keeps emphasizing that he likes his "mother tongue." Nothing wrong with speaking any language, but he keeps emphasizing. Heck, I even saw Baba Ramdev and Sadhguru speaking together, and Ramdev seems like he's feeling proud saying this.

The question is, how can I earn, support myself and my family, and promote true spirituality? Monk/guru/sage may not be your niche. That's why one has to find the niche and promote through that way. That's why they call it your calling (life purpose), with startup to entrepreneurship features. :P

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10 hours ago, Key Elements said:

The question is, how can I earn, support myself and my family, and promote true spirituality?

Jesus said “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple."

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50 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Jesus said “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple."

Why? O.o

Enlightenment and the spiritual path are about love and detachment, not about hating others for no reason. I guess it's how you interpret this quote. Jesus must be describing some very dysfunctional families during his time. That's why they need to be more detached from each other. We don't live in the same time as Jesus.

doyourthing.jpg

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30 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Why? O.o

Enlightenment and the spiritual path are about love and detachment, not about hating others for no reason. I guess it's how you interpret this quote. Jesus must be describing some very dysfunctional families during his time. That's why they need to be more detached from each other. We don't live in the same time as Jesus.

 

For most people, the true search for Enlightenment does not begin without a serious crisis and rabid dissatisfaction. The story of Gautama Buddha portrays this perfectly. All Jed Mckenna books are pretty much about it. 

Spirituality only becomes a serious, personal, hardcore business when there is no other way out. Before that, it's all fun and games. I think Jesus tried to imply this by that quote.

Love and all that goodies may come after the journey is over and the seeker is exhausted. 


''Not this...

Not this...

PLEASE...Not this...''

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i believe shan to an extent now 

Watch this

Read the comments. Those comments seem pretty cult like to me. Idk. I'm open-minded to both sides

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10 hours ago, d0ornokey said:

i believe shan to an extent now 

Watch this

Read the comments. Those comments seem pretty cult like to me. Idk. I'm open-minded to both sides

She is saying Yoga itself is bad and a work of Satan. :D This is not really a criticism of Isha or Sadhguru, but her misunderstanding of what Yoga is. She has got conditioned too much by Christian theology and religion. The same thing happened in this forum as well. There was a person here who was claiming he was very close to spiritual enlightenment. But from his posts, I could do see he was assuming a lot of things about his progress and was trying to convince himself that he was progressing faster. Then suddenly one day he posted that all these non-duality stuff is a work of Satan and only now he realized it. I haven't seen his posts after that.

But anyway, as you said, if you look at the comments of the video and the way people respond to it, you will see that everyone uses a default template, like saying things like 'you are getting paid by someone', 'you are an idiot' and a lot of ad hominem attacks etc.. This is what I am talking about as cultish behaviour. If such responses are given for a video where a lady seems to have misunderstood what yoga is, (since she is seeing these things through a Christian glass), it will only create a bad impression about yoga in general. 

Edited by Shanmugam

Shanmugam 

Subscribe to my Youtube channel for videos regarding spiritual path, psychology, meditation, poetry and more: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwOJcU0o7xIy1L663hoxzZw?sub_confirmation=1 

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This thread very much reminds me of what I first thought when I heard Sadhguru speak on a YouTube video, that he was not the real deal as a guru. I have some experience with guru’s, I spent a lot of time in Osho’s presence back in the day, and there is a kind of quality to how they look and speak which bypasses your brains logic filters and tells you deep inside that here is something genuine — if you are really ready to relate to a guru and open to that. 

It is true, there are always people who have different opinions, in the media as well as on the net. Sometimes they write from prejudice, or they end up toeing the line that some editor back in Europe or the USA has set out for them. But people who can connect and then find that someone is not ready to be a guru but has just taken on the image should speak a word of warning to those who seem interested and might get taken in. 


“Nowhere is it writ that anthropoid apes should understand reality.” - Terence McKenna

 

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I've seen "visions" in the form of videos from another dimension and things I saw during my deep flow state which showed me that Sadhguru is a so called false prophet and might be untruthful. 

Idk, Leo seems to like him.  


Suppose Love is real, and let's assume reality is unreal. Suppose we discover that the building block of reality is real Love, that means our assumption was wrong and reality is actually not unreal. Reality is real, if everything we supposed is true. I'm not going to say if it is or not.

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Well I was falling into this trap too. Until I found your video some months back by accident. I was resisting it and feeling bad. Proof enough I was attached. So I watched it all just to get detached. Well at this point I dont really care. Sadhguru did, and still does make a lot of sense when I used to watch him. I am still subscribed incase something interesting is uploaded. But I am not a 'follower' anymore. I feel like Sadhguru dumbs down himself when in public, since his presence is very wide. And if he says something too radical, he wont be able to wake up many people atleast to a fair amount of level to get further into spirituality themselves. I dont think he can do much. I would say he must be a lot deeper when in private groups and talks. But, my approach is just take what works. I am not getting stuck on any one. By nature if you are famous in today's day and age, you can't talk deeper after a point in public. Even when what he has said now he is in a lot of controversy. I learnt a lot when I needed from his online persona, now I have grown out of it. Simple. I still use some of his teachings in my contemplation. 

Just be sure that if you feel resistant or cant watch the criticism of a spiritual guru or teacher you follow and watch, you probably too attached. I got attached to Leo too. So much so, I was 'afraid' to read the rational wiki on him or to watch the criticism videos made on him. Now I dont watch them cuz there's no need but before I resisted it. Just be aware that devotion doesn't mean attachment. Devotion means surrendering everything. And it is easier to surrender to a Guru you know or a deity like Shiva that you trust. But in that surrendering you also have to surrender all your attachments and all that you care about. If you care about your guru or deity, gotta surrender that too. 

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5 hours ago, Dodo said:

I've seen "visions" in the form of videos from another dimension and things I saw during my deep flow state which showed me that Sadhguru is a so called false prophet and might be untruthful. 

Idk, Leo seems to like him.  

He doesn't claim to be a prophet to begin with.

 

For me he is a classic Indian guru, with a high level of consciousness but at the same time full of vanity and frivolity, paradoxically. If guru has a negative connotation in the West it is due to something.

Edited by RedLine

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7 hours ago, RedLine said:

He doesn't claim to be a prophet to begin with.

 

For me he is a classic Indian guru, with a high level of consciousness but at the same time full of vanity and frivolity, paradoxically. If guru has a negative connotation in the West it is due to something.

Hm idk if you sitting there trying to look like a godly person telling people what is right and how to live, it seems like a prophet role to me. Just because it says Guru doesn't mean he's not playing prophet 

10 hours ago, neutralempty said:

@Dodo What does it tell you about me?

I was just shown specifically Sadhguru. It's not even important much, maybe it was just a message for me Through the image of Sadhguru, but I saw him very poor of spirit due to lies in another dimension. 


Suppose Love is real, and let's assume reality is unreal. Suppose we discover that the building block of reality is real Love, that means our assumption was wrong and reality is actually not unreal. Reality is real, if everything we supposed is true. I'm not going to say if it is or not.

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