Disagreement with Leo about the stage Green video

[Alexandar Edwards]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

What I'm trying to do here is show you that you are cherrypicking the truth to suit your ego. Which is something you'll have to outgrow if you really want to reach liberation and peace.

I know you think that I'm some kinda hippie who has joined a movement and identifies with it strongly and wants to preach about it. And on some level that is probably true and something I will overcome one day. But the issue I'm raising here is not with the moral validity of my own views, but a statement of truth which is self evident. Compassion for others is not something to just let go of because it's only an idea in my mind and constitutes something of my ego. Compassion for others IS part and parcel of absolute truth and the realization of the inherent oneness of all reality. 

 

If you are me and I am you then why the fuck would I cause harm to myself for no reason after realizing that truth? 

Edited July 8, 2018 by Alexandar Edwards

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Alexandar Edwards said:

Compassion for others is not something to just let go of because it's only an idea in my mind and constitutes something of my ego. Compassion for others IS part and parcel of absolute truth and the realization of the inherent oneness of all reality.

Oneness is a very tricky thing. Let's say you are not compassionate, does that mean you are less one?

There is a danger of taking on "compassion" and "goodness" as truer than "hate" and "badness". But that just perpetuates the duality. The deepest levels of consciousness are beyond compassion, beyond human concerns, beyond being good.

The distinction between love and hate must collapse in the end.

The ultimate litmus test would be this: when you see great hate, are you still able to love? Does your compassion extend to the perpetrator as well as the victim? Or are you cherrypicking?

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Alexandar Edwards said:

Just because a concept is just a concept it doesn't make it invalid

That's a concept

[Alexandar Edwards]

@Leo Gura  It seems to me like this is a subject you've not clearly considered brother, I remember seeing chicken in your fridge during the Hawaii retreat and I cannot comprehend how someone who truly understood the non-dual nature of existence would continue to contribute to unnecessary pain and suffering.

Please help me understand if you think I'm wrong, if there's something I'm missing to move fully out of green and into yellow then I want to know what it is, but from what you've said it's like you're saying to evolve psychologically I must just give up acting out of truth, the truth that other beings feel pain and suffering. To me that seems like a massive backward step in psychological development. 

Every master I've heard speak has spoken about infinite compassion and love for all of life. I do not understand how you, the person who I first learned of non-duality from could tell me that is not something that is worth being concerned with? That we shouldn't all strive to better ourselves from low-consciousness acts of violence. You, Leo, the personal development teacher is telling me that compassion to others is just not a worthwhile emotion to feel, or a functional way for society to act? 

I just don't understand, there isn't a single sage who didn't care deeply about life, that's why we're here isn't it? Why you do your videos? Because you and I care deeply about life. It is beautiful, in every way. Why would you want to harm it? Why would that be in alignment with truth? 

Your own words:

"You have to understand what neutrality really is, neutrality doesn't mean that you take the middle ground between all perspectives, so if you have one person in a debate arguing against slavery, and the other person arguing for slavery neutrality doesn't mean you go; 'oh yeah we'll just go for something in the middle'. That's not true neutrality, true neutrality is about being very careful to step outside of your own self-bias, your own self agenda, your own egoic agenda and looking at a situation and deciding what the real facts are. Based on an on unbias look." 

The real facts are that many living beings experience pain and suffering and have a preference to live their lives free from oppression, slavery, abuse and explotation. This is an unbias look from the poistion of the victim, it has nothing to do with my egoic self-agenda. 

Edited July 8, 2018 by Alexandar Edwards

[Leo-Tzu]

The more green you act the more red blue orange your shadow becomes . . . 

[Alexandar Edwards]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Oneness is a very tricky thing. Let's say you are not compassionate, does that mean you are less one?

There is a danger of taking on "compassion" and "goodness" as truer than "hate" and "badness". But that just perpetuates the duality. The deepest levels of consciousness are beyond compassion, beyond human concerns, beyond being good.

The distinction between love and hate must collapse in the end.

The ultimate litmus test would be this: when you see great hate, are you still able to love? Does your compassion extend to the perpetrator as well as the victim? Or are you cherrypicking?

No, all is one all the time no matter what, but those that have realized non-duality have a greater compassion for all of life because they understand its innocence and complete equality within every being. 

Yes I have often forgiven people who have done horrible things to me because I understand that they are innocent due to ignorance, due to their level of development. 

I must forgive almost everyone I interact with on a daily basis who continue to contribute to the suffering of others. 

To quote some guy who died on a cross: "Forgive them lord for they know not what they do."

Edited July 8, 2018 by Alexandar Edwards

[Joseph Maynor]

5 minutes ago, Leo-Tzu said:

The more green you act the more red blue orange your shadow becomes . . . 

Great insight.  

[Leo-Tzu]

@Joseph Maynor because i personally think human beings are hole at the core. . . The spiral dynamics model refers to the Persona layer in the Jungian archetypes. It is applied on humans in human societies. It doesnt mean anything to hermits or society dropouts. The more conscious the persona gets the more it transfers from the shadow anima animus ect. Its a matter of degree in conscious awareness . . . 

[Samra]

48 minutes ago, Alexandar Edwards said:

@Leo Gura

Please help me understand if you think I'm wrong, if there's something I'm missing to move fully out of green and into yellow then I want to know what it is, but from what you've said it's like you're saying to evolve psychologically I must just give up acting out of truth, the truth that other beings feel pain and suffering. To me that seems like a massive backward step in psychological development. 

If you don't mind, I'll add something to this. The truth you are talking about is subjective, which comes from the perspective of an ego , and it's an illusion. If you were another human being, or another animal, your truth would have been different. And that is the proof that this truth is subjective. I know , this sounds wrong and horrible at first. If you go beyond this point, the truth of suffering, your love and compassion will come from an even deeper, calmer more accepting place, and real change can happen. See ugliness as beauty. Accept the imperfection as perfection. You don't need to change your moral, but you need to grow your acceptance to be inclusive. Don't take sides in this game of survival and suffering. 

[SpyAquamarine]

Everything that is happening, the issues that you are fighting against and also your fight, it is all needed and part of the whole. 

At the end of the day it is about feeling joy, so if your activities make you truly happy and joyous, keep at it, no need for validation, justification, explanation, acceptance or success rates, but the amount of joy you feel inside your heart. It doesn't matter who agrees or disagrees with you.

Edited July 9, 2018 by SpyAquamarine

[Elisabeth]

5 hours ago, Alexandar Edwards said:

"Stop caring about social issues so much" 

"They're important, but they're also not important at all"

"Society is progressing at the rate that it needs to be progressing at, society is perfect for this exact moment of time" 

 

Maybe ... sit with the feeling of being triggered? 

Leo may be above you. Or, he may in fact be wrong about this. Or, you may have misunderstood what he's saying and actually you're not in much of a disagreement. Or, you are in a disagreement regardless of your levels, because your choice of values is largely arbitrary. 

Why is any of this particularly triggery? If you follow the feeling, where does it lead you? A belief? An emotional wound? It's an opportunity for exploration. 

[thehero]

3 hours ago, Alexandar Edwards said:

It seems to me like this is a subject you've not clearly considered brother

could this be.... projection?

3 hours ago, Alexandar Edwards said:

I cannot comprehend how someone who truly understood the non-dual nature of existence would continue to contribute to unnecessary pain and suffering.

could this be... projection? 

 

just a thought. 

 

notice your emotional reaction to Leo and question its root 

Edited July 9, 2018 by thehero

[Bobby]

If you see perfection, perfection will manifest itself.

basic law of attraction. Not easy by any stretch. But accomplishable.

Realize that there aren’t good guys and bad guys; there’s just ignorance of which everyone’s a victim, and seek to be an energetic siphon which can absorb and dissolve that ignorance.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Bobby

[CreamCat]

Leo preaches self transcendence. This means transcending death without necessarily opening oneself up to abuse or homicide.

Leo's words make sense in the perspective of self transcendence. If you are not attached to self survival, you would not assign good and evil to people or animals.

Lower animals like lions and rabbits do not care about the concepts of good and evil. Those are human concepts. Anything that threatens your self survival is evil. Thus, your competitor is evil because it threatens your income and thus your survival.

Don't think that I resonate with his words. I don't feel that I agree with self trascendence. it's just description of self transcendence. Do you really want enlightenment after acquiring the true meaning of self transcendence?

Leo said we are not human beings but pure awareness. If you are not a human being but something else, self transcendence means dissociating yourself from human body.

To really refute Leo's points, you have to watch Leo's videos, first. Start with https://actualized.org/start. Leo's videos really hurt my ego. Leo's comments on this forum are worse than his videos. He drives me crazy. He's intent on driving you crazy. My monkey mind fell off and reverted to masturbation because I couldn't handle it.

Edited July 9, 2018 by CreamCat

[Capital]

@Alexandar Edwards man ! You are talking about infinite compassion a lot but it seems to me like you are cherriepicking what you are compassion about and what you are not ! If you really want to transcend and grasp the absolute truth .. you should have compassion for everyone and everything evenly ..ask yourself that question if you are truly compassionate !  do you have compassion for the man who is in an ONLY-MEAT diet plan or you demonize him for thier egotistical desires in the cost of other beings suffering ?  Infinite compassion = compassion for the infinite which includes everything even the man who cause animal's suffering .. even compassion for the suffering itself ! 

Edited July 9, 2018 by Capital

[Capital]

Why people don't demonize a lion for eating animals and they have a degree of compassion to the lion but they demonize humans ? Because humans have more options ? Uhmmmm ! Really if you look at it deeply .. you are picking what you are compassionate about and what not to preserve your ego agenda 

[Freyah]

@Alexandar Edwards this is worth a look. I learned from this just recently. It's been posted somewhere else on the forum already, but yup, "The Work" is probably worth doing....

What do you think? 

[Alexandar Edwards]

3 hours ago, Capital said:

@Alexandar Edwards man ! You are talking about infinite compassion a lot but it seems to me like you are cherriepicking what you are compassion about and what you are not ! If you really want to transcend and grasp the absolute truth .. you should have compassion for everyone and everything evenly ..ask yourself that question if you are truly compassionate !  do you have compassion for the man who is in an ONLY-MEAT diet plan or you demonize him for thier egotistical desires in the cost of other beings suffering ?  Infinite compassion = compassion for the infinite which includes everything even the man who cause animal's suffering .. even compassion for the suffering itself ! 

If you read what I’ve said, I have constantly commented several times that I advocate for non-harm without demonising those who cause it

[Alexandar Edwards]

@Elisabeth Leo’s words have triggered me, and that’s something I must work on within myself. But the point I am making is not some defence of my opinions or morality, but a questioning of why “not caring about social issues” is stated as further development from green into yellow. I do not see this to be true, yellow itself is still concerned with sociological and natural issues but from a systemic rather than a moral point of view. Causing harm to others for an uneccesary reason IS a highly flawed form of thinking for one who understands social and ecological systems. 

Edited July 9, 2018 by Alexandar Edwards

[Sea]

If you were in orange or blue, Leo would be strongly encouraging you to empathize with other sentient beings and to get involved in this sort of activism.