Leo Gura

Spiral Dynamics Stage Yellow Examples Mega-Thread

1,116 posts in this topic

23 minutes ago, Elevated said:

I don't know if they've been posted in this thread yet, but the books, "The Listening Society," and, "Nordic Ideology," by Hanzi Freinacht are specifically Stage Yellow. They outline Metamodernism, a Stage Yellow philosophy, politics, psychology, etc. 

Post-postmodernism, or the New Sincerity, is another term for this. Found this great description on the website linked below:

We see this manifest as a kind of informed naivety, a pragmatic idealism, a moderate fanaticism, oscillating between sincerity and irony, deconstruction and construction, apathy and affect, attempting to attain some sort of transcendent position, as if such a thing were within our grasp. The metamodern generation understands that we can be both ironic and sincere in the same moment; that one does not necessarily diminish the other.

http://www.metamodernism.com/2015/01/12/metamodernism-a-brief-introduction/


"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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@DocWatts Yes exactly! Hanzi uses that as part of the definition. I should add that the book puts forward a more refined version of Spiral Dynamics. He removes turquoise however because he feels that there just isn't enough development in Metamodernism to really say what would come next. It's too speculative at this point. I'm agnostic at this point in my education, but I do think anyone talking about Choral or the higher stages of Integral Theory are mentally masturbating. 

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@Husseinisdoingfine I'm in same boat with you friend, as I believe I fall under green or at least have green values. I do think though that what we are doing here is sorta what yellow is, going meta on life, society, the mind, the ego etc. examining what's true and what's not true for us, keeping an ultra open-mind etc. 

 

any Yellow correct me if I'm wrong: but I think going meta on shit is really what the stage is all about. 

 

I would say though that I couldn't tell a Yellow person for the life of me unless someone points them out. I'm just guessing they probably have a wardrobe full of black shirts.

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On 1/7/2021 at 11:14 PM, nitramadas said:

Turquoise is the bare minimum for being enlightened.

Do not spread misinformation on there. Educate yourself about the distinction between awakening and development.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Do not spread misinformation on there. Educate yourself about the distinction between awakening and development.

I did say "being enlightened" and not "becoming aware of yourself as God" for a reason.  Purple may be more likely to have an experience of God than Yellow, but not to actually become enlightened, as a person.

..wait, omg, I think I've got it.  You may just have a fundamentally different interpretation of SD.  I had just automatically assumed you've moved past this, your ..older content.  You view going past stage Orange as literally just getting rich and becoming successful?!  And, to you, Yellow is.. using wealth gained from Orange to fund sustainable solutions in whatever industry your company works in until you retire as a Turquoise billionaire?  Seriously?!  I guess, considering how you started this business, I shouldn't be surprised.  This really is nothing but a continuation of your "get your ass to the gym! Fuck bitches! Get rich!" videos.  If that's seriously the case.. I'm disappointed.

To me, at least, the stages are "milestones" in lowering one's entropy.   The descriptions are just symptoms, common manifestations of an expanded awareness.  Getting rich isn't what progressing from Orange to Green requires.  What it requires is a level of awareness sufficiently high for one to see that money/possessions/status/skills aren't that important. 

SD measures one's level of awareness the only way possible:  Indirectly.  Through the visible consistent manifestations of each stage.  Those manifestations are not the stages themselves, just tools that allow us to work with the abstract.  Orange may have a proclivity for wanting success/money/status, but that's just because its awareness has expanded enough to see the possibilities visible from level Orange.  All it is is expansion of awareness. 

Now tell me, wise Gura, what's at the top of the spiral?  Is it maximally expanded awareness (aka enlightenment)?  Or is it being "an ultra successful, ripped AF billionaire guy who's getting all the pussy ..on his yacht (leftovers from his Orange days) and says he doesn't need any of it & that's just what integrating Orange looks like", as you so boldly claimed?

Edited by nitramadas

You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

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@nitramadas  Y o u're   the one who's  orange (or blue-orange) here mate, I don't think Buddha was. People can have certain values of a lower stage and be on a higher stage in other aspects of their life. This isn't a 2D model, it has dimensions and I think even the hours of explanation doesn't completely cover the entirety of it. Also it depends on how much you personally absorbed from those videos, so you most definitely have a very tiny slice of all there is to know about spiral dynamics, just like all of us here. 

There's truth in your perspective tho: Don't blindly follow or make role models out of people.

As for Sadhguru, I also think some of the stuff he says is BS but discarding him completely is like turning off the light to a big room in the house. Yes there are an infinite amount of rooms but there's still a lot of value to be gained from the one called Sadhguru.

 

The segregation of women thing is a bit more complicated and I'm not gonna get into that. At least not before I see how you respond to this one, and see whether it is a waste of time to talk about it or not. 

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27 minutes ago, Kamran said:

@nitramadas  Y o u're   the one who's  orange (or blue-orange) here mate, I don't think Buddha was. People can have certain values of a lower stage and be on a higher stage in other aspects of their life. This isn't a 2D model, it has dimensions and I think even the hours of explanation doesn't completely cover the entirety of it. Also it depends on how much you personally absorbed from those videos, so you most definitely have a very tiny slice of all there is to know about spiral dynamics, just like all of us here. 

There's truth in your perspective tho: Don't blindly follow or make role models out of people.

As for Sadhguru, I also think some of the stuff he says is BS but discarding him completely is like turning off the light to a big room in the house. Yes there are an infinite amount of rooms but there's still a lot of value to be gained from the one called Sadhguru.

 

The segregation of women thing is a bit more complicated and I'm not gonna get into that. At least not before I see how you respond to this one, and see whether it is a waste of time to talk about it or not. 

I'm afraid you've completely misunderstood what I was saying about Sadhguru.. and everything else.

I love Sadhguru, I've learned what I could from him, and from countless other similar personalities.  Surely you could see I wasn't being serious when I suggested he is possessed? 

And it has been many years since I was Orange.  I make no effort to appear serious, and often open myself up to public criticisms/judgements.  I find it fun and educational.  I mean.. you have any idea how EASY it would be for me to fake any stage?  I could just say what everyone wants to hear, get everyone to like me, etc., and as I've already explained in many previous posts:  That would do no good.  Why would I want to get people to restrict themselves in any way?  That would not be leading by example.  You think Sadhguru takes himself seriously?  He's trying to be an example for others.

Quote

This isn't a 2D model

Yeah, it is.  SD isn't just some collection of traits.. did you even read anything I wrote?  How many times can I explain the exact same concept..

 

Quote

The segregation of women thing

That's such a simple and boring matter I'm not gonna repeat myself again.  Trivial stage Blue problems that will solve themselves soon enough.

 

Quote

Y o u're   the one who's  orange (or blue-orange) here mate

jfc, if you're gonna make random accusations, at least make an effort, and have at least one point of evidence.  Read what I wrote if anything's still not clear.

Edited by nitramadas

You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

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@nitramadas  I did read it mate. A fish won't know anything about the fact that it's in something called water. As I said, I won't continue if I felt like it wasn't something that made sense, so I'll leave you with the fish analogy. I don't expect you to suddenly become open minded of course (not unless you can stop bullshitting yourself), but maybe in the future when life forces you to think a bit deeper and you re-evaluate things, you might get it. It ain't my job to facilitate your growth, so I won't sit here and try to do that, you can take the win... 

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6 minutes ago, Kamran said:

@nitramadas  I did read it mate. A fish won't know anything about the fact that it's in something called water. As I said, I won't continue if I felt like it wasn't something that made sense, so I'll leave you with the fish analogy. I don't expect you to suddenly become open minded of course (not unless you can stop bullshitting yourself), but maybe in the future when life forces you to think a bit deeper and you re-evaluate things, you might get it. It ain't my job to facilitate your growth, so I won't sit here and try to do that, you can take the win... 

What are you even trying to say?  Speak up!  

Did you mean... me saying 'I love Sadhguru' and that there's value in every perspective means I'm not openminded enough?  I really don't know what you're trying to achieve / what point you're attempting to make.  You've not made a single point so far, just made a bunch of wild, general claims based on your misinterpretation of an old post of mine..

Edited by nitramadas

You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

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@nitramadas  

  • Defending against being called Orange.
  • Wanting to be understood more than wanting to understand
  • Claiming to understand all about spiral dynamics, and not understanding what a model really means and how we're always using one in every situation.
  • Disliking vagueness and not listening to what's being expressed and focusing instead on what's being said
  • Claiming to be above the "trivial" issues of the society, and putting it down by calling it blue.
  • Defending against being judged.
  • Constantly claiming that others are dumb and that you need to explain the same thing over and over again.
  • The whole tone of the comments

and possibly the fact that you thought of pointing out the fact that I responded when I said I wouldn't.

 

I don't know you of course, but I don't need to read an entire book to figure out it's about Classical physics. There might be a bit of relativity and other topics in it but if you open a random page for me a few times I'm pretty sure I'd be able to discern that much. You're most definitely very orange.

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3 minutes ago, Kamran said:

@nitramadas  

  • Defending against being called Orange.
  • Wanting to be understood more than wanting to understand
  • Claiming to understand all about spiral dynamics, and not understanding what a model really means and how we're always using one in every situation.
  • Disliking vagueness and not listening to what's being expressed and focusing instead on what's being said
  • Claiming to be above the "trivial" issues of the society, and putting it down by calling it blue.
  • Defending against being judged.
  • Constantly claiming that others are dumb and that you need to explain the same thing over and over again.
  • The whole tone of the comments

and possibly the fact that you thought of pointing out the fact that I responded when I said I wouldn't.

 

I don't know you of course, but I don't need to read an entire book to figure out it's about Classical physics. There might be a bit of relativity and other topics in it but if you open a random page for me a few times I'm pretty sure I'd be able to discern that much. You're most definitely very orange.

Well, at least you tried.


You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

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17 hours ago, Reciprocality said:

The early Greek philosophers were neccesarily non-yellow

It is interesting though that Protagoras (pre-socratic philosopher) basically established relativistic philosophy (atleast in the West), which is the building block of post-Green thought. Still, the interplay between the individual and the environment is an important factor for judging SD. The environment 2500 years ago could not have produced mature post-Green people.


To balance beauty and complexity so perfectly is a divine mystery.

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@nitramadas Honestly man, just reading your comments you sound like an asshole. I don't mean that to be hostile or mean, but you're doing a really good job of ridiculing anyone who disagrees with you. Why do you feel the need to put someone down just because they disagree with you, have less understanding than you, or are less intelligent than you? Whether those things are true or not, you still seem to have a very strong need to make someone feel lesser. I think it's something you need to dive into. 

All the best. 

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9 minutes ago, Elevated said:

@nitramadas Honestly man, just reading your comments you sound like an asshole. I don't mean that to be hostile or mean, but you're doing a really good job of ridiculing anyone who disagrees with you. Why do you feel the need to put someone down just because they disagree with you, have less understanding than you, or are less intelligent than you? Whether those things are true or not, you still seem to have a very strong need to make someone feel lesser. I think it's something you need to dive into. 

All the best. 

Huh? When did I do that? I'm the one being asked to defend myself here, and due to.. "reasons", I enjoy debating.  So I don't mind the constant challenges.  What kind of a change would make you happy?

It seems like "defending" myself would result in more accusations, not defending myself would result in me I'm being misunderstood, doing nothing would be uneventful..  It's a lose-lose scenario in every case.

 

Edit:

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Don't debate in this thread.

Leo started it.

Wouldn't comments be a great feature, huh?

Edited by nitramadas

You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

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1 minute ago, nitramadas said:

Huh? When did I do that? I'm the one being asked to defend myself here, and due to.. "reasons", I enjoy debating.  So I don't mind the constant challenges.  What kind of a change would make you happy?

Don't debate in this thread.


To balance beauty and complexity so perfectly is a divine mystery.

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@nitramadas It's not the debating that's the issue. By all means, defend yourself. Just read over your messages and look at what you're saying to people. Think about how the way you phrase your responses and how what you specifically say might make people feel. Perhaps you're just meaning to be jokingly edgy for some laughs, but in absence of your actual tone of voice and facial expression it comes across as overly hostile and challenging.

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A great depiction of the spiral:

Arseholes = Red/blue

Dicks = Orange 

Pussies = Green 

Its also amazing how before this Alec Baldwin as a pussy couldn't distinguish between dicks and arseholes and says Team America is just the same as kim jong il because at the pussy level of development everything is equal.

 

Edited by andyjohnsonman

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On 08/01/2021 at 5:52 AM, How to be wise said:

This is very common outside the west. Men prevent women from attending religious sites because they don’t want to be distracted by a woman’s beauty and the sexual desire caused by looking at a woman. Classic stage Blue repression.

Whilst recently the Dalai Lama said he would wish his successor to be attractive if she was a woman ???‍♀️

Make up your minds lads. 

 

The wisest men for millenia were blue, including those enlightened. Perhaps many of their ideas are turquoise but still have attachments to blue ideology. (In regards to some teachers today too, not fully sure). O.o


"Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it" -Rumi

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7 minutes ago, Moon said:

Whilst recently the Dalai Lama said he would wish his successor to be attractive if she was a woman ???‍♀️

Make up your mind lads. 

 

The wisest men for millenia were blue, including those enlightened. Perhaps many of their ideas are turquoise but still have attachments to blue ideology. (In regards to some teachers today too, not fully sure). O.o

I think Hanzi Freinacht gives a good explanation for this. He uses different language for the stages, but he separates Spiral Dynamics into two dimensions, Code and Cognitive Development. Code is what we would typically think of as the Spiral, it's the language, beliefs, etc that constitute the worldview. On the other hand, Cognitive Development is taken from Michael L. Commons Model of Hierarchical Complexity, and is essentially about the complexity of ideas that you can tolerate, and how you can combine ideas into higher order systems. 

For the great thinkers of the past, they would have low vertical development in Code, only operating with a Stage Blue Code. However, they may have very high vertical development in Cognitive Development, playing with ideas at a very high order of complexity. As such, they would have very high horizontal development within Stage Blue. This would mean that they are very highly educated and dealing with Blue ideas that the average Blue thinker wouldn't have the Cognitive Development to understand. They would also be more likely to begin pushing the boundaries of their current Code Stage toward the development of the next Code Stage, in this case, Orange. 

Edited by Elevated

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@Elevated Interesting perspective and insightful, thanks! Each stage is so broad that the (well-intended) judgment often accompanying labelling using SD stages can be limiting. 

May have a look at the books you recommended above :D


"Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it" -Rumi

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