Leo Gura

Spiral Dynamics Stage Yellow Examples Mega-Thread

1,172 posts in this topic

@nitramadas  I did read it mate. A fish won't know anything about the fact that it's in something called water. As I said, I won't continue if I felt like it wasn't something that made sense, so I'll leave you with the fish analogy. I don't expect you to suddenly become open minded of course (not unless you can stop bullshitting yourself), but maybe in the future when life forces you to think a bit deeper and you re-evaluate things, you might get it. It ain't my job to facilitate your growth, so I won't sit here and try to do that, you can take the win... 

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6 minutes ago, Kamran said:

@nitramadas  I did read it mate. A fish won't know anything about the fact that it's in something called water. As I said, I won't continue if I felt like it wasn't something that made sense, so I'll leave you with the fish analogy. I don't expect you to suddenly become open minded of course (not unless you can stop bullshitting yourself), but maybe in the future when life forces you to think a bit deeper and you re-evaluate things, you might get it. It ain't my job to facilitate your growth, so I won't sit here and try to do that, you can take the win... 

What are you even trying to say?  Speak up!  

Did you mean... me saying 'I love Sadhguru' and that there's value in every perspective means I'm not openminded enough?  I really don't know what you're trying to achieve / what point you're attempting to make.  You've not made a single point so far, just made a bunch of wild, general claims based on your misinterpretation of an old post of mine..

Edited by nitramadas

You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

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@nitramadas  

  • Defending against being called Orange.
  • Wanting to be understood more than wanting to understand
  • Claiming to understand all about spiral dynamics, and not understanding what a model really means and how we're always using one in every situation.
  • Disliking vagueness and not listening to what's being expressed and focusing instead on what's being said
  • Claiming to be above the "trivial" issues of the society, and putting it down by calling it blue.
  • Defending against being judged.
  • Constantly claiming that others are dumb and that you need to explain the same thing over and over again.
  • The whole tone of the comments

and possibly the fact that you thought of pointing out the fact that I responded when I said I wouldn't.

 

I don't know you of course, but I don't need to read an entire book to figure out it's about Classical physics. There might be a bit of relativity and other topics in it but if you open a random page for me a few times I'm pretty sure I'd be able to discern that much. You're most definitely very orange.

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3 minutes ago, Kamran said:

@nitramadas  

  • Defending against being called Orange.
  • Wanting to be understood more than wanting to understand
  • Claiming to understand all about spiral dynamics, and not understanding what a model really means and how we're always using one in every situation.
  • Disliking vagueness and not listening to what's being expressed and focusing instead on what's being said
  • Claiming to be above the "trivial" issues of the society, and putting it down by calling it blue.
  • Defending against being judged.
  • Constantly claiming that others are dumb and that you need to explain the same thing over and over again.
  • The whole tone of the comments

and possibly the fact that you thought of pointing out the fact that I responded when I said I wouldn't.

 

I don't know you of course, but I don't need to read an entire book to figure out it's about Classical physics. There might be a bit of relativity and other topics in it but if you open a random page for me a few times I'm pretty sure I'd be able to discern that much. You're most definitely very orange.

Well, at least you tried.


You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

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17 hours ago, Reciprocality said:

The early Greek philosophers were neccesarily non-yellow

It is interesting though that Protagoras (pre-socratic philosopher) basically established relativistic philosophy (atleast in the West), which is the building block of post-Green thought. Still, the interplay between the individual and the environment is an important factor for judging SD. The environment 2500 years ago could not have produced mature post-Green people.


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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@nitramadas Honestly man, just reading your comments you sound like an asshole. I don't mean that to be hostile or mean, but you're doing a really good job of ridiculing anyone who disagrees with you. Why do you feel the need to put someone down just because they disagree with you, have less understanding than you, or are less intelligent than you? Whether those things are true or not, you still seem to have a very strong need to make someone feel lesser. I think it's something you need to dive into. 

All the best. 

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9 minutes ago, Elevated said:

@nitramadas Honestly man, just reading your comments you sound like an asshole. I don't mean that to be hostile or mean, but you're doing a really good job of ridiculing anyone who disagrees with you. Why do you feel the need to put someone down just because they disagree with you, have less understanding than you, or are less intelligent than you? Whether those things are true or not, you still seem to have a very strong need to make someone feel lesser. I think it's something you need to dive into. 

All the best. 

Huh? When did I do that? I'm the one being asked to defend myself here, and due to.. "reasons", I enjoy debating.  So I don't mind the constant challenges.  What kind of a change would make you happy?

It seems like "defending" myself would result in more accusations, not defending myself would result in me I'm being misunderstood, doing nothing would be uneventful..  It's a lose-lose scenario in every case.

 

Edit:

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Don't debate in this thread.

Leo started it.

Wouldn't comments be a great feature, huh?

Edited by nitramadas

You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

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1 minute ago, nitramadas said:

Huh? When did I do that? I'm the one being asked to defend myself here, and due to.. "reasons", I enjoy debating.  So I don't mind the constant challenges.  What kind of a change would make you happy?

Don't debate in this thread.


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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@nitramadas It's not the debating that's the issue. By all means, defend yourself. Just read over your messages and look at what you're saying to people. Think about how the way you phrase your responses and how what you specifically say might make people feel. Perhaps you're just meaning to be jokingly edgy for some laughs, but in absence of your actual tone of voice and facial expression it comes across as overly hostile and challenging.

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A great depiction of the spiral:

Arseholes = Red/blue

Dicks = Orange 

Pussies = Green 

Its also amazing how before this Alec Baldwin as a pussy couldn't distinguish between dicks and arseholes and says Team America is just the same as kim jong il because at the pussy level of development everything is equal.

 

Edited by andyjohnsonman

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On 08/01/2021 at 5:52 AM, How to be wise said:

This is very common outside the west. Men prevent women from attending religious sites because they don’t want to be distracted by a woman’s beauty and the sexual desire caused by looking at a woman. Classic stage Blue repression.

Whilst recently the Dalai Lama said he would wish his successor to be attractive if she was a woman ???‍♀️

Make up your minds lads. 

 

The wisest men for millenia were blue, including those enlightened. Perhaps many of their ideas are turquoise but still have attachments to blue ideology. (In regards to some teachers today too, not fully sure). O.o


"Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it" -Rumi

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7 minutes ago, Moon said:

Whilst recently the Dalai Lama said he would wish his successor to be attractive if she was a woman ???‍♀️

Make up your mind lads. 

 

The wisest men for millenia were blue, including those enlightened. Perhaps many of their ideas are turquoise but still have attachments to blue ideology. (In regards to some teachers today too, not fully sure). O.o

I think Hanzi Freinacht gives a good explanation for this. He uses different language for the stages, but he separates Spiral Dynamics into two dimensions, Code and Cognitive Development. Code is what we would typically think of as the Spiral, it's the language, beliefs, etc that constitute the worldview. On the other hand, Cognitive Development is taken from Michael L. Commons Model of Hierarchical Complexity, and is essentially about the complexity of ideas that you can tolerate, and how you can combine ideas into higher order systems. 

For the great thinkers of the past, they would have low vertical development in Code, only operating with a Stage Blue Code. However, they may have very high vertical development in Cognitive Development, playing with ideas at a very high order of complexity. As such, they would have very high horizontal development within Stage Blue. This would mean that they are very highly educated and dealing with Blue ideas that the average Blue thinker wouldn't have the Cognitive Development to understand. They would also be more likely to begin pushing the boundaries of their current Code Stage toward the development of the next Code Stage, in this case, Orange. 

Edited by Elevated

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@Elevated Interesting perspective and insightful, thanks! Each stage is so broad that the (well-intended) judgment often accompanying labelling using SD stages can be limiting. 

May have a look at the books you recommended above :D


"Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it" -Rumi

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23 minutes ago, Moon said:

Whilst recently the Dalai Lama said he would wish his successor to be attractive if she was a woman ???‍♀️

No stage Blue person would EVER say that! Dalai Lama is very western. You need to go to China to meet the real stage Blue folks. 

I’m not familiar with Chinese monks, but if you met them, their attitude would be much closer to this:

 


"Wanting keeps me from the awareness I already have it. I already am it.” — Byron Katie

 

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6 minutes ago, Moon said:

@Elevated Interesting perspective and insightful, thanks! Each stage is so broad that the (well-intended) judgment often accompanying labelling using SD stages can be limiting. 

May have a look at the books you recommended above :D


Agreed!  The Metamodernism book mentioned by Hanzi Freinacht that @Elevated mentioned intrigued me enough to order a copy; looking forward to reading it. Almost seems like an extension of some of the things that another one of my favorite authors, David Foster Wallace, wrote about; that postmodernism, having done its job, has reached the limits of its usefulness, and it's due time for a more constructive paradigm to take its place.

 

 

Edited by DocWatts

"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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@Moon @DocWatts 

He mentions David Foster Wallace in the second book as an early Metamodernist.

In line with the idea of the New Sincerity, Hanzi is actually the penname of Daniel Görtz and Emil Friis. They constructed the character of Hanzi, a middle aged hipster who lives in his billionaire friends Swiss Chateau, hiking the Alps and doing acid while he philosophizes about the coming new age of Metamodernism. Definitely plays the role of ironic sincerity. Once you get the character they're playing, you'll appreciate the humour of the book much more. 

Edited by Elevated
Format

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On 1/13/2021 at 11:49 AM, Elevated said:

@Moon @DocWatts 

He mentions David Foster Wallace in the second book as an early Metamodernist.

In line with the idea of the New Sincerity, Hanzi is actually the penname of Daniel Görtz and Emil Friis. They constructed the character of Hanzi, a middle aged hipster who lives in his billionaire friends Swiss Chateau, hiking the Alps and doing acid while he philosophizes about the coming new age of Metamodernism. Definitely plays the role of ironic sincerity. Once you get the character they're playing, you'll appreciate the humour of the book much more. 

Thanks again for the recommendation. One of the most impressive things about the book so far is how its tone of sincere irony is so effective at conveying profound ideas in such an engaging (and self demonstrating) way. Or the way it uses  this to convey important ideas in a way that undercuts it's own self importance. Brilliant.

Humour is such a good way of creating emotional engagement with ideas, it's a pleasant reprieve from the dry academic tone that I've come to take for granted in philosophical works.

Also brings to mind some of my favorite works of fiction that make use of sincere irony to leave a lasting impact (the Good Place comes to mind...).

Edited by DocWatts

"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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I don't know if he's already listed.. 

He is very far developed. But I don't if he uses the terms green and tier 2 from the sd model or from another one

Edited by Seeker531

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this guy is amazing ( just claryfing he is yellow on Spyral Dynamics, not that hes yellow because he's asian lol )

This system is literally the future of education right there.

 

Listening to this guy is so satisfying. Gotta love the structural thinking

Edited by mmKay

Aggressively Ignorant Certified Lazy Skeptic and Armchair Philosopher👨‍🎓

💊 1 Year Heavy Metal Detox Challenge Journal ☢️💊

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