I'm probably orange, and I have issues with green

[lmfao]

I just wanted to talk about where I am in relation to the Spiral Dynamics model and why I feel/think it doesn't work fully (at least for me). I'll just give a little background so you can get a taste of where I'm coming from when I talk about how I feel about Spiral Dynamics. 

I have an emotionally and slightly physically abusive mother. She has a few autistic traits, and she has learnt/developed a lack of empathy in her upbringing. She was raised in a middle-class third world country. She is extremely manipulative in her relationships with friends as well as her relationship with my dad. She is controlling, and irresponsibly spends money. She lies a lot. Many of my family members from her side of the family (uncles + aunts) have numerous mental health issues: bipolar, schizophrenia, depression, anxiety and etc. I don't know what her upbringing was really like, she doesn't answer the questions I ask her about it. 

I think I'm slightly autistic as well (not hugely however) and combined with my upbringing, I have naturally low levels of empathy. I can become a tad too callous sometimes since I've had to be callous in dealing with my mother. A year ago when I was 16 I was definitely orange. Now I'm at a point where I feel as though I see through the problems with orange. I don't like the metaphysics they have, and I'm into spirituality. I'm not too concerned with material success. I just want to enjoy the process of exploring maths and physics, as far as my life purpose is concerned. 

Despite the fact that I feel I've outgrown orange in many ways, I don't feel a strong connection to green. I never have and probably never will experience green in the way Leo described it. I like to help people, but I do it without too much emotional investment. From meditation I've learnt to integrate and let my emotions express themselves, but even then I think I'm neurotyoically deviant and so I have issues in trying to make sense of spiral dynamics. 

Green seems to emphasise an emotional connection with people in that sense that "your pain is my pain". Green's state of being seems to be one where you are constantly feeding off of the subtle emotional cues of others in order to make sense of reality. But I cannot do this. When I reach deep higher consciousness states from meditation, my emotions will come to life more, but the healthy expression of my emotions doesn't match green. I feel love for people, but it's a different type of love. I love them because they are a part of reality. 

And so it is that one of the reasons I think Spiral Dynamics is flawed is that it works of the premise that all humans are similar enough such that they are capable of fully expressing each stage. But this is not the case. There is neurodiversity. What is healthy for one person can be unhealthy for another person. 

Trying to evolve myself to green almost seems like I would be having to act completely inauthentic. Maybe my understanding of green and spiral dynamics is false. But I've written what I think based upon how Leo described Green and based upon what I think to be real life examples of how it typically manifests. 

I've talked more about my problems with spiral dynamics here  

 

And so it is that for personal development, I should just forget about Spiral Dynamics and just continue pursuing enlightenment. And to be enlightened, you drop all concepts about reality, and that includes spiral dynamics. 

Edited July 3, 2018 by lmfao

[Leo Gura]

@lmfao Or... that's just a clever story your ego has concocted because it doesn't want to grow outside its comfort zone.

Opening your heart takes work. Especially if you didn't receive proper love from your mother.

[lmfao]

@Leo Gura ? 

[tsuki]

@lmfao Parenting is tough. Not simply because of the need to support yourself and your child.
It is, because the parent's personal worldview is being treated by the child as absolute truth simply because there is no other point of reference.
As you grow up, you learn various other perspectives about things that happen, and it may seem like your parent is being stuck.
Your mother probably went through the same thing as she grew up and now, having lived all these years and transcending all of these worldviews, she is probably convinced that she is a reasonable human being.
It is not your, nor anybody else's fault, that you mistook her worldview as the world when you were a child. This is simply you growing up.

I'm not saying this to somehow deny your pain which you went through, but to point you to the fact that what you see now is still, a relative worldview.
The story about your mother and about you is not just a story, but it is something that lets you cope with your suffering. It lets you see your suffering as something meaningful, which is a valid approach.

The frame of reference you've chosen however, is not constructed to explain human interactions. Science will diagnose your mother's autism, but will not let you relate to her. Relating to other people is not done solely through

4 hours ago, lmfao said:

feeding off of the subtle emotional cues of others in order to make sense of reality.

but via mental capability to produce stories that do not place burden of responsibility on anybody. This mode of being in which there are aggressors and victims is a rationalist's way to enforce causality in human interactions so that laws of science apply to other domains.

Human interactions are non-causal.
The way in which you perceive your mother determines the way in which you treat her.
The way in which your mother treats you determines the way in which you perceive her.

This is why compassion is important in these relationships. Compassion is a mode of being in which you endure perceived mistreatment to protect your perceptions of others. Because you never know whether you are being reasonable or not by being hurt. After all, all perspectives are relative.

It is a mistake however to ignore your own suffering in order to protect others. Everybody is equal, including you.
Your suffering is not less important than other people's suffering. Listen to it, but be compassionate. Towards everybody.

[molosku]

You are not loveless, it's just that you need time and work to work with your emotions. Everyone except psychopaths have an infinite potential for love. Your set point for it is in your particular position. Don't make up limiting beliefs about yourself, they are just thought stories and defence mechanisms. 

[Samra]

@lmfao thanks for sharing. Once I read your post, I realize I'm in a very predicament as you. I don't understand love the way most people do , and that's my biggest challenge. My mother was not abusive, but she had extreme depression and didn't want to interact with me. I have an amazing father, and so I'm independent and financially successful. Too independent. Most relationships of mine ended with "I can't be someone who doesn't love me." So you are not alone on this journey.

That doesn't make the spiral dynamics inapplicable for us, it just shows the work we need to do. Everyone's work is different. Some need to work on discipline, some on their addiction, some need to understand love and compassion. The fact that you are here and sharing this means that you are already half way there.

[Dan Arnautu]

@lmfao It's easier to blame the tools than the one who employs them.

Don't create a limiting belief for yourself that you can't open your heart and move into green. If you do that, of course you will blame the model for being flawed rather than taking extreme ownership of the situation.

If you want to stay into orange that's totally fine, nothing wrong with it, but you won't have the right to complain if progress will start to stall in your life.

Read more about green. I sense that you still don't understand the stage well enough. The process need not be forced. In time, you will most likely start to see the limits of orange first hand and move into green because you won't have an alternative.

Best of luck.

[lmfao]

@tsuki @molosku @Samra @Dan Arnautu @EtagnwoGood advice! 

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by lmfao

[purerogue]

Although I do not think that everyone needs to move into full green,you on other hand look like person who needs this experience.

[Brittany]

You are on the right path.

Your post is shouting to me that "you need more self love". You need to double down on self love and self compassion.  When you have enough of your own love and your own kindness, your cup will overflow and you will feel sick and drown in your own love if you don't share it with the world. haha

Follow what feels true and what is self compassionate, and you will "fall into green" and not even realize it.

I think that intentionally trying to become "green" can actually stunt your growth. 

Follow your intuition and it will lead you to the next stages.

Spiral Dynamics is just a fun tool. Not a Bible.