Leo Gura

Spiral Dynamics Stage Orange Examples Mega-Thread

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To be quite frank, it astounds me just how little Ricky Gervais has changed / grown for the past several years. He's basically been the same arrogant vocal materialist almost his entire life and career. I've consumed a lot of media involving him especially his podcasts and his closed-minded attitude, as opposed to his beliefs, sort of rubs me the wrong way.

Edited by Extreme Z7

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The 2nd might be a "Try not to Cringe challenge" for @Leo Gura LOL jk

Orange reacting to Blue belief structure without recognizing it's own biases and it's own belief structure.

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@Serotoninluv

On 16/11/2018 at 2:38 AM, Serotoninluv said:

One can be ideological about atheism - which Sam Harris most certainly is.

Harris is such an interesting mix of Orange, Green and Yellow.

Very true. Yeah Harris is interesting although I find him boring now. 

@Leo Gura  

On 16/11/2018 at 2:47 AM, Leo Gura said:

It is not that. It is the belief that there is no God and that the universe is a dumb material object.

From wikipedia "Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities". Do you believe this definition to be false and/or a cover for what is really at the heart/core at the ideology that is atheism? When looking at a particular ideology or point of view, it is important to look at the motive and heart behind it. Language and formal definitions can just be "deceptive" tools to propogate a mode of being. I wonder if this is where you are coming from.

I also wonder if the definition you stated for atheism is based upon the idea that it is the people themselves who profess to have a certain (ideology) /(point of view) who define that (ideology) /(point of view). Because many atheists are dogmatic.  I think that the idea I stated earlier in the first sentence of this paragraph is a useful perspective but it's flawed on its own. Such a perspective creates innacurate generalisations. For example, you yourself Leo like Islam but you acknowledge that the vast majority of people who profess themselves to be followers of Islam are dogmatic and are not reoresentive of the (Islam) /(aspect of Islam) that you like. 

I feel like this discussion is obfuscated by the word "God" that we use. When I think about enlightenment experiences I've had, If God is pointing towards something foundational in reality then "God" is beyond talking about. When I think about the "God" I come across in meditation then a "rejection of God" (because you can never reject "God") would be synonymous with low consciousness. I don't really know what I'm talking about right now because this is too complicated. 

On 16/11/2018 at 2:47 AM, Leo Gura said:

There is no atheism without materialism. They go hand in hand.

Interesting thought. From my perspective the probability that you're right for a percentage close to 99% of cases in the western world is quite high. 

Edited by lmfao

Hark ye yet again — the little lower layer. All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event — in the living act, the undoubted deed — there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there's naught beyond. But 'tis enough.

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Pretty much anything to do with transhumanism, immortalism, and life extension reeks strongly of Orange with a partial green mask (partially due to its niche status in intellectual discourse). At least so far. Can't but feel there is a little red in there too.

Anyway it's basically SCIENCE SCIENCE SCIENCE.

Maybe there is a way to blend such topics with Turquoise, but personally I don't see it. I feel the universe would react strongly against the ego being immortal, it is definately an interesting topic though. I remember being 9 year old and calling transhumanists poo poo faces on their forums. I still feel the ideology makes me...sad, maybe a little less now though.

Edited by Talinn

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@Talinn A lot of futurist are stage Yellow, not sure about these two individuals.

I see this as almost inevitable though, life expectancy is always increasing even though we are arguably the most unhealthy we have ever been as technology continues to grow exponentially, boob jobs are just the beginning-what makes you think this won't happen? I mean, unless we destroy our planet before we get to that point. 

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@Equanimitize

 

Like I said this topic maybe could be advanced further into Yellow/Turquoise, i just remember being on the forums where they were all trashing religious people. Overall it seemed to be like just a niche version of rationalist/humanist/scientific schools of thoughts. Science was seen as the only legitamate way to end pain, and I specifically recall people saying that they wanted to be immortal so that they could play every game ever or dedicate themselves to ending religion.

I don't mean to be dogmatic about death (or morose :) hehehe) but it seems necessary for humanity as a whole to move up the spiral. A large percentage of the world wouldn't recognize anything *other* than death.  It is worthy of more investigation though.

Edited by Talinn

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31 minutes ago, Outer said:

Look, a bunch of hippies, Diversity, etc... Is this really stage Orange? @Serotoninluv @Leo Gura

Individual people can be a mixture of stages - they can be more advanced along some developmental lines than others.

Also, I give more weight to core values and motivation than outward appearance. For example, someone could join a diversity committee at their workplace just to outcompte a coworker and improve their chance for promotion. That would be Orange, not Green. 

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10 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Also, I give more weight to core values and motivation than outward appearance. For example, someone could join a diversity committee at their workplace just to outcompte a coworker and improve their chance for promotion. That would be Orange, not Green. 

Huh, that's how I think most people are, from HR departments to university faculty. Red/Blue in disguise. :ph34r:

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@Outer Hippies can have a libertarian streak as well. There are left and ring wing versions of libertarianism.

There are even anarcho-communists:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-communism

The problem is that doesn't work at scales of tens of millions of people. Yes, a handful of farmers can get together and build a local farm road. But they can't build an interstate highway or stop giant corporations from pouring toxic waste into a lake or running nationwide high speed 5G wireless phone networks.

Modern governments with 100+ million people require massive infrastructure to maintain. You can't get that by living in tent villages and bartering homegrown lettuce with your hippie neighbors.

Warlords will certainly enslave your hippie commune if there is no strong federal government to protect it. But even more realistically your hippie commune you will self-collapse from greed and sexual and other scandals. A sociopathic narcissist will hijack your commune and turn it into a criminal cult.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Outer Hippies can have a libertarian streak as well. There are left and ring wing versions of libertarianism.

There are even anarcho-communists:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-communism

Anarcho-communism and anarcho-capitalism can co-exist.

 

Edited by Outer

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@Outer Lol, let's see what happens when they encounter a warlord who laughs at their non-aggression principle and rapes their children while making them watch.

Now that's true freedom!


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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Defense isn't in violation of the non-aggression principle. It is the initiation of force that is. So an anarcho-communist commune can defend itself, or a community of individuals in an anarcho-capitalist "commune".

@Leo Gura

Edited by Outer

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