spiral dynamics question

[Zweistein]

@White I'm trying to communicate how I dare to read any comments in this forum.  

It helps to read between the lines and it's mind blowing - have you tried?

Edited June 21, 2018 by Zweistein

[White]

@Sea I don't think your personal interests or political interests have anything to do with it. Going through the stages means living them and assimilating. There is a consensus in developmental psychology circles that it takes about 5 years to navigate through each stage. Think of it this way, you can use your meditation practice or self inquiry to produce non dual states that help you disidentify yourself from the stage your ego is embedded in right now.  The stages are already there awaiting for you, they were co-created in the past and are kind of stored in the unconscious storage bin of humanity (do you find that analogy helpful?) When you emerge from blue you enter into an already pre existing world called orange . It's the same for everyone. Orange was developed in the we space around the time of the renaissance. Before that, humanity didn't have access to that level of cognition. Some argue that it was developed even earlier with the Greeks, but didn't become centre of gravity until the middle of the last millennia. I don't think it takes more to pass through green than earlier levels. I have not heard that idea before. Anyway, does any of this make sense? I hope I'm explaining it effectively 

[White]

@Zweistein ok  I will try it.

[White]

@Sea you have to develop a pluralistic ego. That means that your worldview is that you hold all worldviews as equally true because you understand that all is relative. This is greens quest for peace and happiness and it's way of trying to solve the problems of society. But green is very very deluded. You won't see that for yourself and be ready until you have fully explored that paradigm. Yellow will emerge naturally as a reaction to having come to a dead end with green. The problem some people have is they stagnate at the time they leave college. There is something about settling and nesting and pursuing a career that stunts psuchogical development. Researchers have observed that development can pick up again mid 40s (when the kids are grown up?)

[Joseph Maynor]

29 minutes ago, Zweistein said:

And this one:

"I gotta learn how to use models without letting them use me..."

Hilarius, isn't it? ??

What’s so funny?

[Zweistein]

11 minutes ago, White said:

@Zweistein ok  I will try it.

I apply the same strategy when I read my own comment before posting it ?

[White]

@Joseph Maynor I have used a lot of models in my time. I used them before they had a chance to use me! 

Fun 

[Zweistein]

5 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What’s so funny?

When you=I can laugh about ourselves - see?

[White]

1 hour ago, Sea said:

or do I need to be ok with everything the Venezuelan and Chinese governments are doing? 

Yes, in a way. Otherwise yellow won't emerge. I'm only going by research.

 

Edited June 21, 2018 by White

[Joseph Maynor]

13 minutes ago, Zweistein said:

When you=I can laugh about ourselves - see?

I didn’t realize that’s what you were alluding to.  I said the thing is a model, didn’t I?  It’s just a useful model, that’s all it is.  Don’t make it more than what it is.  Some of you are kinda forgetting that and taking the model way too literally.  Don’t turn Spiral Dynamics into an ideology!  You’re gonna screw it up.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Zweistein]

9 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I didn’t realize that’s what you were alluding to.  I said the thing is a model, didn’t I?  It’s just a useful model, that’s all it is.  Don’t make it more than what it is.  Some of you are kinda forgetting that and taking the model way too literally.  Don’t turn Spiral Dynamics into an ideology!  You’re gonna screw it up.

OK, OK - breathing helps me when I get frustrated! ;-) Everything will be fine! We will all die one day and it won't matter if we understand models or not.

[White]

(Edit)

 

Edited June 21, 2018 by White

[sarapr]

27 minutes ago, Zweistein said:

OK, OK - breathing helps me when I get frustrated! ;-) Everything will be fine! We will all die one day and it won't matter if we understand models or not.

Hilarious  

[Sea]

@White Thanks. I have in theory been aware of all worldview being equally true for some time, however treating them as equally true is a different matter because there's a clash with self agenda of course. 

[White]

@Sea cognitive line is in Green, but other aspects are dragging behind - self, emotional, interpersonal?. Some shadow sub personality? Check out the Wilber coombs matrix for more info on lines of development. That really screws people up! And taking spiral dynamics too seriously (of course!)

Edited June 21, 2018 by White

[Emerald]

Stage Beige in Societies - Nomadic times with little to no technological advancement. Completely dependent on Mother Nature and at the mercy of her cycles. No ability to settle into societies because there's no ability to practice agriculture. Limited ability for communication.

Stage Beige in Fetuses/Newborns- Complete dependency and at the mercy of the mother for gestation and after birth breast-milk. No ability for communication or complex agendas. Basic survival needs.

 

Stage Purple in Societies - The earliest civilizations, where we've settled into tribes. A huge emphasis on family. The concept of fatherhood is discovered. More technological advancements come into play including agriculture and written language, which allows us to settle into organized societies for the first time.

Stage Purple in Older Infants/Younger Toddlers- Focus more toward others in the family beyond just the mother. Siblings become a big part of one's life at this stage. Beginning to have more personal will and some idea about how the world works.  

 

Stage Red in Societies- Independence from tribal societies. A focus on one's own individual agenda with no consideration for anyone else. Can often be brutal.

Stage Red in Toddlers- Desiring independence from the family's agenda and a desire to do his/her own thing. Very self-focused without empathy for others. The word "NO" is learned. Can often be brutal. Terrible twos and three-nagers are a force to be reckoned with.

 

Stage Blue in Societies- More complex social structures are set up with rigid ideas of right and wrong. Little ability for nuanced thinking. But a solid moral foundation allows for technological advancements and specialization. Traditions are appreciated and give a sense of comfort. Lots of fear and discomfort at things that diverge from he familiar.

Stage Blue in Older Toddlers/Children (4-11)- The rules of right and wrong are learned in an absolute way. Having a solid foundation of rules for proper functioning give the child a sense of stability to be able to develop a strong sense of self-efficacy with the ability for success and praise to come from taking "right" action. Traditions are appreciated and give a sense of comfort. Lots of fear and discomfort at things that diverge from the familiar. 

 

These are all important stages that each child has to pass through to develop properly. 

[Zweistein]

@Emerald: Would you mind sharing your source/the reference for this?

[Rilles]

19 hours ago, Sea said:

Ok, so simply being non-skeptical atheist gets you through blue? Isn't this really stretching the definition of blue? What's weird to me is that according to you guys, you can go through beige, red and blue as a child without ever believing even 10% of the sh** an adult in those stages would believe. I don't get the impression the standard for orange on this forum is very high either. Just be a materialistic atheist for a while and you're through! Then suddenly for green, you have to adopt quite a specific worldview.

@Sea I said im growing into Green, I havent dropped Orange completlely, and besides, I cant write my entire history in just one post, there are alot of nuances to it. You cant just start out where your parents are, an infant is Beige for example and then becomes purple/red from about 2-4. Lastly I live in Sweden, there are alot of Green thinking in our society that is influencing me.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Rilles

[John Iverson]

On 6/20/2018 at 2:53 PM, sarapr said:

When kids are born, the first stages they go through is the ones before red, but if they grow up in an orange stage family they're likely to never cultivate stage blue thinking. That means skipping stages which Leo says is not possible.

So is it possible?

Another issue would be, how I can resonate with three different stages at the same time. The values in each stage are supposed to be antithetical to one another. Or maybe we can behave according to different set of values in different facets of life?

If you are an infant you are like a sponge that will absorb all you gather in your environment, that is the same if you will become child.. nursery, kinder prep until before high school that is the time that if you're in a surroundings of blue.. then you will be blue easily.. that's why it is hard for us to have an enlightenment, and to have a guru for consciousness,, because infancy until you die, your surroundings helps you to be unconscious more... 

if you are in teenager stage you cannot help yourself anymore to skip it.. because your brain is already fixed of that,.. you can evolve but you cannot skip the stages...

[Emerald]

On 6/22/2018 at 5:23 AM, Zweistein said:

@Emerald: Would you mind sharing your source/the reference for this?

There's no source. I just came up with it based off of what I know about spiral dynamics, history, and children.