When you are enlightened - Do "you" remember "who" "you" once were?

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, WaterfallMachine said:

I’ve had similar experiences remembering past lives myself like Quanty, and I found they’re actually useful to the path of Enlightment — lots of insights whether these are real or not. Sometimes it takes some “stories” to experience to know how to eventually remove it.

Your words in themselves are stories, but I’m sure you won’t disagree with the idea that it could eventually reach the idea of removing them.

Good.  Become more aware how stories differ from awareness.  Focus inward on this instead of arguing outward.  You gotta grok it.  That mindfulness alone will serve you.  Keep building on that mindfulness and your awareness will expand over time.  You’re too focused on arguing outward instead of focusing inward.  Enlightenment is not about beliefs — it’s about transcending the Belief Paradigm.  If you’re arguing about beliefs you’re 500 miles in the wrong direction from Enlightenment.  Yes, this is a story too — but it’s a useful story, a pointer for you.  The only relevant issue for you is are you Enlightened.  Don’t lose sight of that ball.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[White]

28 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Nice!  You’re getting it.  It’s important to get it.  Keep following that insight.  You’ve located one of the trailheads for Enlightenment.  Now you gotta deep-dive that insight down its rabbit hole.  Now you are know what thought-stories are.  Start to be able to notice them in real life.  Notice how many thought-stories Enlightened people tell.  The other trailhead is you need to discover what awareness is and is not.  Meditation is a great way to start down that rabbit hole. Start a meditation habit asap.  

I'm mocking you. I don't believe your stuff. I already said you're not enlightened because according to the research yellow and turquoise isn't enlightenment. It's only at unitive do people become aware of their meaning making.

I don't think anyone can really become enlightened full time anyway.  Spiral dynamics is a map of phenomena and what we know about what enlightenment is that it's not a state or station, it's not perceivable or conceivable. Enlightenment seems like a process more than anything else. I think you concocted your OWN story about what enlightenment is and have made that your identity. You don't sound very wise. You think other teachers don't teach awareness, or that they are ineffective because they are not getting scars from blowback. That doesn't sound too healthy to me..getting scars from people getting angry with you? You should know your place and only coach people who ask for your opinion. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by White

[Guest Quanty]

Song Quote:

"Nobody knows the trouble I've seen..."

 

[Joseph Maynor]

9 minutes ago, White said:

I'm mocking you. I don't believe your stuff. I already said you're not enlightened because according to the research yellow and turquoise isn't enlightenment. It's only at unitive do people become aware of their meaning making.

I don't think anyone can really become enlightened full time anyway.  Spiral dynamics is a map of phenomena and what we know about what enlightenment is that it's not a state or station, it's not perceivable or conceivable. Enlightenment seems like a process more than anything else. I think you concocted your OWN story about what enlightenment is and have made that your identity. You don't sound very wise. You think other teachers don't teach awareness, or that they are ineffective because they are not getting scars from blowback. That doesn't sound too healthy to me..getting scars from people getting angry with you? You should know your place and only coach people who ask for your opinion. 

It’s not about belief.  You don’t get it.  Enlightenment is not about belief.  It’s funny how you want to dismiss me.  All your outward arguments aren’t doing squat for your Enlightenment.  Focus inward.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[White]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

It’s not about belief.  You don’t get it.  Enlightenment is not about belief.  It’s funny how you want to dismiss me. 

Now you're getting all shitty and taking it personally that I don't swallow your bullshit immediately. 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

Just now, White said:

Now you're getting all shitty and taking it personally that I don't swallow your bullshit immediately. 

 

Keep parading your ignorance.

[White]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

It’s not about belief.  You don’t get it.  Enlightenment is not about belief.  It’s funny how you want to dismiss me. 

You come across as aggressive pushy and overy sensitive. 

Plus you write in an inflammatory way.

There is no way you are self aware. Absolutely no way. You're a regular frustrated chump. 

[Joseph Maynor]

4 minutes ago, White said:

You come across as aggressive pushy and overy sensitive. 

Plus you write in an inflammatory way.

There is no way you are self aware. Absolutely no way. You're a regular frustrated chump. 

You don’t appreciate what I’m trying to teach yet.  That’s fine.  Hey — I least I care enough to try to help you with your desire to pursue Enlightenment.  Enlightenment is not a pleasant path.  Until you become Enlightened yourself, you shouldn’t criticize me or my teaching style.  You don’t know what you're talking about yet.  You should be more open to listening not judging at your stage.  

Edited June 20, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[White]

5 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Keep parading your ignorance.

Is this your line when people don't agree wholesale with your bullshit?

They are ignorant and the ones who believe you are smart?

This is low level stuff. Even orange is aware of how abusive this is. If you can't see it then you're not even orange yet.

Plus your impulsive. You send hit on your post and then go back and edit it because you can't control yourself. You cant act in a composed way and just write what you need to say in one go.

Enlightened my ass

Edited June 20, 2018 by White

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, White said:

Is this your line when people don't agree wholesale with your bullshit?

There are ignorant and the ones who believe you are smart?

This is low level stuff. Even orange is aware of how abusive this is. If you can't see it then you're not even orange yet.

Plus your impulsive. You send hit on your post and then go back and edit it because you can't control yourself. You can act in a composed way and just write what you need to say in one go.

Enlightened my ass

Focus inward.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[White]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You don’t appreciate what I’m trying to teach yet.  That’s fine.  Hey — I least I care enough to try to help you with your desire to pursue Enlightenment.  Enlightenment is not a pleasant path.

Maybe people dont want your help? You should learn to respect people's boundaries. 

[Joseph Maynor]

6 minutes ago, White said:

Maybe people dont want your help? You should learn to respect people's boundaries. 

Maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself until you know what you’re talking about.  Maybe you should learn to listen instead of being so quick to judge and to moralize.  Enlightenment is not about judging and moralizing, see? I deal with people like you all the time.  Everybody starts like that in Enlightenment.  Enlightenment is not a nice experience.  It’s ripping the shit out of your paradigms and identifications.  So, you’re just starting out here.  Be more of a sponge right now.  Just listen with an open mind.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[White]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself until you know what you’re talking about.  Maybe you should learn to listen instead of being so quick to judge and to moralize.  Enlightenment is not about judging and moralizing, see?

You have no idea what enlightenment is about 

It's not about teachers ramming a teaching down others throats and telling them to give up their scepticism because they are not as enlightened as some frustrated chump who read a bit of spiral dynamics and watched a bunch of videos on YouTube and now thinks he's the big daddy. 

You're seriously fucking off the chart buddy and someone should stop you. 

[Joseph Maynor]

10 minutes ago, White said:

You have no idea what enlightenment is about 

It's not about teachers ramming a teaching down others throats and telling them to give up their scepticism because they are not as enlightened as some frustrated chump who read a bit of spiral dynamics and watched a bunch of videos on YouTube and now thinks he's the big daddy. 

You're seriously fucking off the chart buddy and someone should stop you. 

Whatever.  I’m done arguing with you.  I’ve done enough for you to get you started.  You’re a white belt thinking he’s a fifth-degree black belt.  Talk is cheap buddy.  Do some of the work and then we’ll talk further.  And you’re not so nice in your language to me, yet you moralize about my language.  You don’t even understand morality yet.  Listen at this stage.  Be a sponge.  Hold that tongue for a while.  Give me the benefit of the doubt of at least assuming I’m teaching in good faith.  If you can’t do that, you’re just gonna be tail-chasing at your stage.  When you’re talking you’re not listening.  You need to be listening right now.  

Edited June 20, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Saumaya]

Im not even surprised at this point. People make conclusions about enlightenment and judge whether other people are enlightened or not and then claim they are not enlightened themselves. What authority do you have then. Enlightenment is not ideal projection of a person, thats focusing outward. Outward doesn't matter as far as enlightenment is concerned. Enlightenment is something very specific.  There is a difference between living life and getting enlightened. I hope more people would at least get this. This is the biggest initial trap.

[WaterfallMachine]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Good.  Become more aware how stories differ from awareness.  Focus inward on this instead of arguing outward.  You gotta grok it.  That mindfulness alone will serve you.  Keep building on that mindfulness and your awareness will expand over time.  You’re too focused on arguing outward instead of focusing inward.  Enlightenment is not about beliefs — it’s about transcending the Belief Paradigm.  If you’re arguing about beliefs you’re 500 miles in the wrong direction from Enlightenment.  Yes, this is a story too — but it’s a useful story, a pointer for you.  The only relevant issue for you is are you Enlightened.  Don’t lose sight of that ball.

Again, you’re making the same conclusions on me without any evidence — I’m already aware of this. The bad thing about giving advice forcefully is that you assume the person is stupider and does not already know this. It’s basic respect not to assume or judge others too quickly — yet here you are.

Edited June 20, 2018 by WaterfallMachine

[White]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Whatever.  I’m done arguing with you.  I’ve done enough for you to get you started.  You’re a white belt thinking he’s a fifth-degree black belt.  Talk is cheap buddy.  Do some of the work and then we’ll talk further.  And you’re not so nice in your language to me, yet you moralize about my language.  You don’t even understand morality yet.  Listen at this stage.  Be a sponge.  Hold that tongue for a while.  Give me the benefit of the doubt of at least assuming I’m teaching in good faith.  If you can’t do that, you’re just gonna be tail-chasing at your stage.  When you’re talking you’re not listening.  You need to be listening right now.  

I mean, seriously dude, no offence meant, but who the fuck do you think you are? I already told you I don't consider you enlightened or a teacher or even barely able to string a cohesive teaching together. I'm not your student. I did actually invite some coaching but then I retracted that because you told me that enlightenment is about studying enlightenment and that I should go watch Leo's videos. You have lost the plot. I wonder how you would get on at a real integral forum? You seem to get away with it here because this is a beginner's site. 

[White]

20 minutes ago, WaterfallMachine said:

Again, you’re making the same conclusions on me without any evidence — I’m already aware of this. The bad thing about giving advice forcefully is that you assume the person is stupider and does not already know this. It’s basic respect not to assume or judge others too quickly — yet here you are.

What he's done is introjected a belief that enlightenment is about being aware of thought stories and now all he's apparently seeing is thought stories projected outside of himself. He has actually no integrated skills because of this, because all those life skills are now just labelled "thought stories" in his mind so he has basically split off all his mental faculties and thinks that he can trash another's boundary by forcing his truth down their throats. This is psychological abuse and it's a shtick.  

Edited June 20, 2018 by White

[WaterfallMachine]

People, just ignore @Joseph Maynor, he’s not worth your time anymore.

1 minute ago, White said:

What he's done is interjected a belief that enlightenment is about being aware of thought stories and now all he's apparently seeing is thought stories projected outside of himself. He has actually no integrated skills because of this, because all those life skills are not just labelled "thought stories" so he has basically split off all his mental faculties and thinks that he can trash another's boundary by forcing his truth down their throats. This is psychological abuse 

Maybe it’s best to ignore the abuse. Being diagnosed PTSD myself, lots of people around the trauma community have experiences getting traumatized because of people like this — and usually the best way to get them to stop is not to argue back or even ignore them that will make them more aggressive to you, but to give vague neutral statements — like “I see,” or “Alright.”

People like this feed on other’s emotional reactions, and I’ve decided to not try to convince him anymore. At this point, there is no hope. Maybe it’s time to find another way.

[Nahm]