Leo Gura

Spiral Dynamics Stage Blue Examples Mega-Thread

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4 hours ago, Rasheed said:

Indoctrination 101

Stage Blue 101

 

Wow! Chilling stuff.

Great example. That boy's mind will be paradigm locked for the rest of his life, never to find God.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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Looks like stage blue people forcing Trump to pass these rules. Is there a women in hijab behind him?

Also, I find the inaccurate map on his desk hilarious. :D

Christians feeling like victims in USA. And they they say the left wingers are victims. 

 

Edited by Derek White

“Many talk like philosophers yet live like fools.” — Proverb

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On 2/1/2020 at 8:17 PM, Leo Gura said:

Wow! Chilling stuff.

Great example. That boy's mind will be paradigm locked for the rest of his life, never to find God.

Don't judge so quickly. I was born and raised in an extreme Catholic society, I also used to do catholic prayers before lunch since kindergarten. Didn't attend a religious school later, but I would have catechism every Saturday for years as a kid to prepare for the first communion. My parents would remind me to pray before going to sleep, my grandma still does that to the day xD. We would also often pray before meals at home.

Now I'm thankful for those experiences. They allow me to understand much better how religion works, empathize, and have a healthy sense of compassion for those who weren't able to see beyond, and did get trapped in the dogma. Also, I find it very funny how decades after learning lame religion songs for children, those stupid songs actually give me chills because I grasp the Truth that they were trying to convey.

One of them goes (translated):
God is here, yes He is here,
as true as the air I breathe,
as true as the sunrise in the morning,
as true as when I speak to you, you listen to me.

Another one:
Start by looking for Gods kingdom,
and its divine justice,
and everything else will come on its own
Aleluya

Edited by Mondsee

"Es gibt die Wahrheit, mein Lieber! Aber die ,Lehre', die du begehrst [...], die gibt es nicht. Du sollst dich auch gar nicht nach einer vollkommenen Lehre sehnen, Freund, sondern nach Vervollkommnung deiner selbst."

- Herman Hesse, Das Glasperlenspiel

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@Mondsee That's like saying, "My parents molested me as a child, but now I've overcome it and I'm grateful for who its made me."

Good for you, but most molested kids don't get over it so easily.

This is not a matter of judgment but a matter of creating paradigm lock in a child's mind. Which is as big a problem as molesting a child.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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Father forgive them, for they know not what they do. Luke 23;24

Edited by supremeyingyang

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3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Mondsee That's like saying, "My parents molested me as a child, but now I've overcome it and I'm grateful for who its made me."

Good for you, but most molested kids don't get over it so easily.

This is not a matter of judgment but a matter of creating paradigm lock in a child's mind. Which is as big a problem as molesting a child.

Welp, what I see is all of my very best friends from college being deeply deeply locked in the scientific rational paradigm, having no understanding or tolerance whatsoever for anything that comes slightly close to religion. They weren't brainwashed into religion as children, but that didn't end up any better... I am able to fully empathize with both worlds, and that's because I've experienced both of them fully, and transcended them.


"Es gibt die Wahrheit, mein Lieber! Aber die ,Lehre', die du begehrst [...], die gibt es nicht. Du sollst dich auch gar nicht nach einer vollkommenen Lehre sehnen, Freund, sondern nach Vervollkommnung deiner selbst."

- Herman Hesse, Das Glasperlenspiel

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5 minutes ago, Mondsee said:

Welp, what I see is all of my very best friends from college being deeply deeply locked in the scientific rational paradigm, having no understanding or tolerance whatsoever for anything that comes slightly close to religion. They weren't brainwashed into religion as children, but that didn't end up any better... I am able to fully empathize with both worlds, and that's because I've experienced both of them fully, and transcended them.

Technically it is better. But yes, that's a separate problem.

It is better to deal with a science zealot than a religious zealot.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Technically it is better. But yes, that's a separate problem.

It is better to deal with a science zealot than a religious zealot.

I sometimes doubt this. I have had quite deep conversations with a muslim friend who is incredibly trapped into Islamic dogma, and have had him grasp much better how a piece of garbage in the woods is  God (we were literally walking out in nature, and I used that as an example) than other hyper-scientific and "progressive thinking" friends understand that different religions are all referring to the very same thing, in the same ways that different languages all serve the same purpose of communication. "Oh no no no..." they'll say... "some religions are way worst than others, and by no means are they about the same!!! the only thing that they have in common are the stupid people who follow them"... well, haha there may also be a little bit of truth in that, but we never get passed an evasive response like that because they're literally allergic to anything that gets remotely away from their materialistic rationality. Their minds are just as paradigm locked for the rest of their lives, never to find God.

Edit: the fact alone that I have this muslim friend (and other super religious friends) is something I attribute to the fact that I can understand them. My "scientific" friends are absolutely incapable of this, and thus they will "tolerate" religious people, but they are unable to have an actual close friendship with them, as I can.

Edited by Mondsee

"Es gibt die Wahrheit, mein Lieber! Aber die ,Lehre', die du begehrst [...], die gibt es nicht. Du sollst dich auch gar nicht nach einer vollkommenen Lehre sehnen, Freund, sondern nach Vervollkommnung deiner selbst."

- Herman Hesse, Das Glasperlenspiel

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On 2/1/2020 at 11:19 PM, Derek White said:

Looks like stage blue people forcing Trump to pass these rules. Is there a women in hijab behind him?

Also, I find the inaccurate map on his desk hilarious. :D

Christians feeling like victims in USA. And they they say the left wingers are victims. 

 

Yea defenitely the wrong mindset, but should we not let blue kids pray in public schools? 

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1 hour ago, Cocolove said:

but should we not let blue kids pray in public schools?

No one is stopping a kid from praying in public school.

That's not the issue. The issue is that those who complain about not being able to pray in public school actually have the hidden agenda to disseminate their favorite religion via public school. They want to use government to promote their religion and indoctrinate kids.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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1 hour ago, Mondsee said:

I sometimes doubt this. I have had quite deep conversations with a muslim friend who is incredibly trapped into Islamic dogma, and have had him grasp much better how a piece of garbage in the woods is  God (we were literally walking out in nature, and I used that as an example) than other hyper-scientific and "progressive thinking" friends understand that different religions are all referring to the very same thing, in the same ways that different languages all serve the same purpose of communication. "Oh no no no..." they'll say... "some religions are way worst than others, and by no means are they about the same!!! the only thing that they have in common are the stupid people who follow them"... well, haha there may also be a little bit of truth in that, but we never get passed an evasive response like that because they're literally allergic to anything that gets remotely away from their materialistic rationality. Their minds are just as paradigm locked for the rest of their lives, never to find God.

Edit: the fact alone that I have this muslim friend (and other super religious friends) is something I attribute to the fact that I can understand them. My "scientific" friends are absolutely incapable of this, and thus they will "tolerate" religious people, but they are unable to have an actual close friendship with them, as I can.

It seems that way on the surface, but in practice that Muslim is less morally and cognitively developed than an atheist.

Of course there are exceptions. I'm speaking more broadly.

Stage Orange is more developed than Blue. That Muslim has yet to go through the atheist and rationalist stage and in practice he will be a bigger devil.

If he is a stage Green Muslim then he might be above the typical atheist. But stage Green Muslims are a tiny percentage of the population.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It seems that way on the surface, but in practice that Muslim is less morally and cognitively developed than an atheist.

Of course there are exceptions. I'm speaking more broadly.

Stage Orange is more developed than Blue. That Muslim has yet to go through the atheist and rationalist stage and in practice he will be a bigger devil.

If he is a stage Green Muslim then he might be above the typical atheist. But stage Green Muslims are a tiny percentage of the population.

A reminder that the higher you are on the Spiral Dynamics stages is not proportional to the closer you are to grasping the Truth. Enlightenment can happen at any stage. I've recently been reading St. Teresa of Avila's Book of Life. That's a blue stage Enlightenment right there. Veeeery blue, and very enlightened. The kid praying may be closer to God than the rational materialist... just to God in the form of Jesus Christ in heaven, but still God, nonetheless.


"Es gibt die Wahrheit, mein Lieber! Aber die ,Lehre', die du begehrst [...], die gibt es nicht. Du sollst dich auch gar nicht nach einer vollkommenen Lehre sehnen, Freund, sondern nach Vervollkommnung deiner selbst."

- Herman Hesse, Das Glasperlenspiel

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@Mondsee Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut.

Doesn't mean anything.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Mondsee Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut.

Doesn't mean anything.

My point here is that a certain spiral stage alone won't necessarily keep you away from God. Let's not confuse the spiral dynamics with other types of development (such as Maslow' Hierarchy of Needs) and simple open-mindedness and honesty levels, which IMO explain a much bigger part of this phenomenon.


"Es gibt die Wahrheit, mein Lieber! Aber die ,Lehre', die du begehrst [...], die gibt es nicht. Du sollst dich auch gar nicht nach einer vollkommenen Lehre sehnen, Freund, sondern nach Vervollkommnung deiner selbst."

- Herman Hesse, Das Glasperlenspiel

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8 hours ago, Mondsee said:

A reminder that the higher you are on the Spiral Dynamics stages is not proportional to the closer you are to grasping the Truth. Enlightenment can happen at any stage. I've recently been reading St. Teresa of Avila's Book of Life. That's a blue stage Enlightenment right there. Veeeery blue, and very enlightened. The kid praying may be closer to God than the rational materialist... just to God in the form of Jesus Christ in heaven, but still God, nonetheless.

that’s true and it is not. also your signature is pointing towards both sides of infinity. remember, the devil is a squirrel. if the squirrel would give up on searching for nuts it would probably still be a rat. we often think we can explain the general through the exceptional but don’t realize that all the exceptional can explain is the exceptional.

even though that’s exactly what is making it so special and beautiful, it is also showing how unexceptional the general is.

or you could also say: even a blind nut sometimes finds a squirrel.

Edited by remember

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This lady is priceless:

 


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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22 hours ago, Mondsee said:

My point here is that a certain spiral stage alone won't necessarily keep you away from God. Let's not confuse the spiral dynamics with other types of development (such as Maslow' Hierarchy of Needs) and simple open-mindedness and honesty levels, which IMO explain a much bigger part of this phenomenon.

This is a good point and isn't brought up often enough in the Actualized community -

Spiral Dynamics is such a beautiful model that explains so much, but there seems to be a massive temptation to retreat to the trenches of simplicity by stating, "oh that's stage red this! Oh that person is stage orange going green because of this!" ...... instead of thinking critically and even attempting to generate a more encompassing explanation.

Leo himself is quite guilty of this if you look closely, you'll hear him simply utter only stages somewhat frequently in his videos so passively like it somehow explains everything you need to know about a topic in two words.

Don't get me wrong spiral dynamics is awesome, but it's like less than 1% of all the models and content you could use to explain things.

 


hrhrhtewgfegege

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Just want to remind everyone: this thread has a lot of silly and negative examples of Blue because they are flashy, funny, and all-too-easy to find. (I'm guilty of this.) But there are also many healthy and positive examples of Blue.

Don't get the idea that Blue is always idiotic. Without Blue, civilization would collapse.

This too is stage Blue:

 


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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@Leo Gura What if you were to make a separate threads of the positives for each stage. Like "Positive Stage-Blue Examples". 

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