Spiral Dynamics Stage Blue Examples Mega-Thread

[Edvard]

1 hour ago, John Iverson said:

Yes , it could be, I don't know, but if it's that's the case maybe they are blue but they have slightly different in color.. because as long as they have the belief of "for the nation" i would die for the Nation.. then that is the sign that they are blue.... pure orange , green , yellow , and turquoise,.. will not do that and think that way... unless they are pure blue or blue + slightly different color... the portion of blue is higher than the other. Color...

I don't agree with that. We all have beliefs, but the thing about Blue, if we go by the model, is that it identifies with the beliefs and hold them as absolute truths, ie. handed down by a personal god, or similar. You can still believe your nation is good and worth protecting, and seeing the value in contributing to that, being willing to sacrifice your life for people because you also can count on others to do the same for you, and for there at all to exist a nation where people can thrive. Protecting the nation also protects your right to go to school, to practice yoga, to speak freely. We count on other people, and are better off in a society where we share this burden of protecting values that we share. Not necessarily through military, but that's an important part of it.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Edvard

[John Iverson]

24 minutes ago, Edvard said:

I don't agree with that. We all have beliefs, but the thing about Blue, if we go by the model, is that it identifies with the beliefs and hold them as absolute truths, ie. handed down by a personal god, or similar. You can still believe your nation is good and worth protecting, and seeing the value in contributing to that, being willing to sacrifice your life for people because you also can count on others to do the same for you, and for there at all to exist a nation where people can thrive. Protecting the nation also protects your right to go to school, to practice yoga, to speak freely. We count on other people, and are better off in a society where we share this burden of protecting values that we share. Not necessarily through military, but that's an important part of it.

Do you know what stage are you?

[Edvard]

25 minutes ago, John Iverson said:

Do you know what stage are you?

I'm not sure, but I find it hard to believe I'm anything below green, going by the model. I liked Obama, and has always been on the secular, liberal spectrum of thinking throughout my youth, while I would say changing quite a bit the last 2-3 years in the way I see things, identifying less with secularism and liberalism, but still preferring that over conservatism.

I could have aspects of different stages, and I'm not sure exactly how accurate SD is, although I certainly can recognize a lot of aspects of it, and no doubt, there is an evolution going on.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Edvard

[John Iverson]

1 hour ago, Edvard said:

I don't agree with that. We all have beliefs, but the thing about Blue, if we go by the model, is that it identifies with the beliefs and hold them as absolute truths, ie. handed down by a personal god, or similar. You can still believe your nation is good and worth protecting, and seeing the value in contributing to that, being willing to sacrifice your life for people because you also can count on others to do the same for you, and for there at all to exist a nation where people can thrive. Protecting the nation also protects your right to go to school, to practice yoga, to speak freely. We count on other people, and are better off in a society where we share this burden of protecting values that we share. Not necessarily through military, but that's an important part of it.

I ask what is your stage because i see that you are on a blue + slighlyt green if you want obama, each color has different beliefs and different identification, you will know this for each Videos that will upload by Leo, this sunday and onwards... if you want an example,.. Red stage is very different to Blue... you cannot expect blue to believe a nation that is good, Orange is more Individualistic... orange is more focus to improve or to grow the "SELF" he is focus as an individual now,.. you don't understand the Spiral Dynamics,... it is evolution...."EVOLUTION" if something is evolved you will not see that thing same ,.. for example dinosaurs, if dinosaurs evolved in to birds you will not know that, that thing is a dinosaur before,..  because he change,. All his ideology or beliefs change, it "evolved" 

 

you see sadhguru's video about the military doing yoga, Sadhguru do that because he is in the higher level now,.. he is God that supports each stage and understand them all, so his own Yoga pass it to the military to support their Own belief,. Do i make myself clear? Sadhguru can speak for each stage about Yoga for their own """"""""""Language""""""""" the """"KEYWORD"""" for every stage is important to make bestfriend to each stage... it is dangerous also if you use Triggered points haha,..  believing nation is Good is bulshit to orange green or any stage, this is not a belief, from the bird's eye view if you look at the green's belief he believes in connection of each people not for the nation but for the whole world,.. see! Nation is not a belief of a green it is the world, look obama , obama is green,.. he is more focus to that... i don't know obama really but for what Leo is trying to say in his video he talk about a little bit of Obama that i understand the green stage,.. in orange, Steve Jobs don't give a fuck to go to school because that is not his stage, if his school is orange stage i am sure that he will motivate to go to school, but he is inspired doing things for the people,. Not for the nation but forr the whole ,.. Blue doesn't give a fuck to do things for the people,.. they do the things within his civilization... it is not what you think,... each stage if it is pure it is very different.. that is why Each Stage could Judge the stage below and above the, because every stage is different thinking and different beliefs.... there is only exception if blue added with slightly different colors for example... because no they are starting to grow... and starting to change.. until such time they are pure, and move to other stage.. or it mix up again.. evolving with spiral dynamics don't have a short cut , you cannot jump into other level without passing the other stage... 

Leo talk about that if you are blue you don't even watch his video,, it need to be mix of something or in orange level to watch his video,,... you know why??? Because Leo's Content is for the self, for letting go of belief and to let go the ego, and ideology,. Orange is individualistic that want to self actulized... and green for I don't know what their agenda,.. but blue?  Don't give a fuck.. man! Hahahaha try to talk about actualized.org.. you will judge as lunatic or something ahhahaha

Edited June 22, 2018 by John Iverson

[Edvard]

23 minutes ago, John Iverson said:

I ask what is your stage because i see that you are on a blue + slighlyt green if you want obama, each color has different beliefs and different identification, you will know this for each Videos that will upload by Leo, this sunday and onwards... if you want an example,.. Red stage is very different to Blue... you cannot expect blue to believe a nation that is good, Orange is more Individualistic... orange is more focus to improve or to grow the "SELF" he is focus as an individual now,.. you don't understand the Spiral Dynamics,... it is evolution...."EVOLUTION" if something is evolved you will not see that thing same ,.. for example dinosaurs, if dinosaurs evolved in to birds you will not know that, that thing is a dinosaur before,..  because he change,. All his ideology or beliefs change, it "evolved" 

 

you see sadhguru's video about the military doing yoga, Sadhguru do that because he is in the higher level now,.. he is God that supports each stage and understand them all, so his own Yoga pass it to the military to support their Own belief,. Do i make myself clear? Sadhguru can speak for each stage about Yoga for their own """"""""""Language""""""""" the """"KEYWORD"""" for every stage is important to make bestfriend to each stage... it is dangerous also if you use Triggered points haha,..  believing nation is Good is bulshit to orange green or any stage, this is not a belief, from the bird's eye view if you look at the green's belief he believes in connection of each people not for the nation but for the whole world,.. see! Nation is not a belief of a green it is the world, look obama , obama is green,.. he is more focus to that... i don't know obama really but for what Leo is trying to say in his video he talk about a little bit of Obama that i understand the green stage,.. in orange, Steve Jobs don't give a fuck to go to school because that is not his stage, if his school is orange stage i am sure that he will motivate to go to school, but he is inspired doing things for the people,. Not for the nation but forr the whole ,.. Blue doesn't give a fuck to do things for the people,.. they do the things within his civilization... it is not what you think,... each stage if it is pure it is very different.. that is why Each Stage could Judge the stage below and above the, because every stage is different thinking and different beliefs.... there is only exception if blue added with slightly different colors for example... because no they are starting to grow... and starting to change.. until such time they are pure, and move to other stage.. or it mix up again.. evolving with spiral dynamics don't have a short cut , you cannot jump into other level without passing the other stage... 

Leo talk about that if you are blue you don't even watch his video,, it need to be mix of something or in orange level to watch his video,,... you know why??? Because Leo's Content is for the self, for letting go of belief and to let go the ego, and ideology,. Orange is individualistic that want to self actulized... and green for I don't know what their agenda,.. but blue?  Don't give a fuck.. man! Hahahaha try to talk about actualized.org.. you will judge as lunatic or something ahhahaha

If you read that I said I have been secular minded and liking Obama my entire youth.. how can I be Blue? I understand it if you treat SD as an ideology, where my ideas about one subject doesn't fit your understanding of the model. Sadhguru doesn't just respect the military for politeness, he sees the value in what they are doing. Btw., pacifism, according to the Dutch site Leo gave credit to in his video, is typical for Green. Not Yellow, not Turqoise.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Edvard

[John Iverson]

2 hours ago, Edvard said:

I don't agree with that. We all have beliefs, but the thing about Blue, if we go by the model, is that it identifies with the beliefs and hold them as absolute truths, ie. handed down by a personal god, or similar. You can still believe your nation is good and worth protecting, and seeing the value in contributing to that, being willing to sacrifice your life for people because you also can count on others to do the same for you, and for there at all to exist a nation where people can thrive. Protecting the nation also protects your right to go to school, to practice yoga, to speak freely. We count on other people, and are better off in a society where we share this burden of protecting values that we share. Not necessarily through military, but that's an important part of it.

You're a blue because of your ideology of this... this is not the thinking of other stage this is not the ideology of other stage... even you like Obama since you are a sperm cell hahaha with that ideology you are not yet done evolve of  blue,... my understanding of Blue stage is not based on my ideology.. it is as it is... I understand it ,..as it is.. 

 

1 hour ago, Edvard said:

Sadhguru doesn't just respect the military for politeness, he sees the value in what they are doing. Btw., pacifism, according to the Dutch site Leo gave credit to in his video, is typical for Green. Not Yellow, not Turqoise.

Yes , he see the value of it.. because every stage is necessary.. and like for stage blue it is necessary also and what stage are people in is perfectly fine.. there is nothing wrong with it.. there is a time for evolution to take place.. blue is a functional for that place it is at his best! Blue has its own Value and that's perfect to fit in in this world..  because blue is the first step for progressiveness... 

i don't know why you use pacifism.. ? Is it because of the soldier?? I don't know... but if that is because of soldiers you watch in Sadhguru's Video, watch it with caption for you to read what is the soldiers do,qoute: " if I don't kill the militants, they will kill me,  it is do or die""",.... "i have to kill them otherwise they will kill me"... pacifism is settled for peace.. soldiers that are in the isha yoga center is a BLUE ? And they are willing to end their life and to kill somebody to their nation... i said, there is a big difference about blue, orange, green, yellow, and turquoise to their own values, and the way they see things, and their own way of life.. if you are on a kind of stage, you don't resonate yourself as a blue if you are orange, even the minimal details of being a blue, .. even in one word,.. even Nation word.. is not what the orange resonate with... unless you're mixing up with slighly blue,.. but orange as is plus green without blue, it is more different values they have... you will not see any small detail that could possibly to be blue..  what your understanding, is not it..

Edited June 22, 2018 by John Iverson

[Raphael]

This scene is from Genious, the real interesting part starts at 2:30. The teacher and the students are all blue, except for Albert Einstein

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Raphael

[Edvard]

2 hours ago, John Iverson said:

Yes , he see the value of it.. because every stage is necessary

So you say it's necessary to have every stage, but at the same time you label anyone who believes in certain aspects of a certain stage to be less developed, given that you say I must be Blue because I don't think someone needs to be "less developed" (than say Orange or Green) just because they may want to die for a cause. Every stage is right in some sense, which kind of leads to the logical conclusion that it makes sense to adopt certain characteristic views of all those stages without necessarily being at that stage.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Edvard

[SoothedByRain]

 

[SoothedByRain]

 

[Edvard]

Guys, the positions or opinions of people are not what determines the stages, rather it's probably better to look at the assumptions and worldviews behind the positions when looking at where people are at (although not even that is definitive in many cases), if there's gonna be any use for this model. Nitpicking certain phrases and isolated opinions of people, like of Obama, is counterproductive and feeds delusion in regards to a model. 

When you say; "oh, Obama says this, so he must be that", it is simply because you have a different opinion than him, or a different understanding on an issue. And maybe it is because you have different assumptions related to the stages, and maybe it's because Obama is a system thinker, and maybe you are not. Who knows? (BTW, I'm not an Obama worshiper, agreeing with everything he says, but he was brought up here)

 

I recommend this one, BTW:

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Edvard

[Leo-Tzu]

I was noticing japanese spectators during the world cup in russia who after the game went on cleaning the stadium. Another "strange" thing among others like train company giving public excuses for being late 10 seconds all year etc... Which color do you categorise them? They must be some kind of deep blue or advanced yellow . . . @Leo Gura

[Joseph Maynor]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Falwell

Green vs. Blue

Edited June 22, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Leo Gura]

@Leo-Tzu Lol, I think Japanese people just hate litter.

Not every behavior is related to Spiral Dynamics. Every culture has its unique cultural customs. Japanese people are indoctrined not to litter. In Tokyo, it's taboo to even eat or drink while walking. If you walk down the street in Tokyo eating an icecream sandwhich, people will look at you like you're walking without pants.

[John Iverson]

8 hours ago, Edvard said:

So you say it's necessary to have every stage, but at the same time you label anyone who believes in certain aspects of a certain stage to be less developed, given that you say I must be Blue because I don't think someone needs to be "less developed" (than say Orange or Green) just because they may want to die for a cause. Every stage is right in some sense, which kind of leads to the logical conclusion that it makes sense to adopt certain characteristic views of all those stages without necessarily being at that stage.

I am not saying "Less Develop" nothing in my explanation there i say Less Develop.. ? I don't know why you interpret that as a less develop, i said, every stage is perfect and necessary,.. where is the less develop there? Wth ??? I don't know if your triggered or something , Someone at a certain stage there is a time for evolution, not a less develop,... you cannot adopt certain characteristics without evolution, lets say you are blue.. don't expect a blue stage will listen to you about jacques derrida deconstruction... you commit the very sin and you triggered them to their status quo.. see! You cannot force a pure blue whatever you say that we are also GOD,.. and practice Consciousness for a pure blue will judge you as a sinner you are evil,  ? You cannot expect blue can talk about something for the people,.. the only that matter for them is their own country, their own nationality, their own belief, their own rules and value, their own ideology, their own civilization... their is us and them,, see if you are somehow getting evolve starting see the limitation of your stage you are starting to let go of the stage you're into, that is the time the other color mix, but still you possess a values of blue because you are not yet totally evolve,... every stage doesn't have better than, and more develop.. it's just that """""""evolution"""""  EVOOOLUUTIOOOON! ? 

 

11 hours ago, John Iverson said:

You can still believe your nation is good and worth protecting, and seeing the value in contributing to that, being willing to sacrifice your life for people because you also can count on others to do the same for you, and for there at all to exist a nation where people can thrive. Protecting the nation also protects your right to go to school, to practice yoga, to speak freely.

The Blue everything here in protecting of something is a pure ego... there is nothing to protect.. all must surrendered the very big surrender that you can surrender is yourself.. not for the nation or for the people but to the universe.. there is a big difference of surrender for enlightenment and surrender for the external world.. because external world doesn't exist it is an illusion, in this kind of stage and that stage can you spot the difference? HAHAHA! do i cling to external world? Do i cling to my Nation? I want to make you see the difference of every stage for you to see how blue is this.. ?..  for every stage there is a big difference.. orange is different values than blue.. i am not saying blue is less develop.. it is just that evolution... and their is difference about their own essense... that's it.. try to say to blue that stop believing that your nation is good and bad and worth protecting, and there is nothing to value , don't try to sacrifice your life for people because you cannot count on others to do same for you if you think others can count to do the same for you because you and them are one,.. the only thing you can do is make them conscious of who they are to make them see who is the true evil .. and for there at all to exist a nation where can thrive?? Nothing exist.. all is illusion.. thrive is an illusion there is nothing to thrive.. nation is a concept... protecting the nation and also protects your right to go to school to practice yoga, to speak freely????,,.. nation is a concept.... rights is a limited... it is also a concept.. when you say right it has someone taking your ability to something.. so there is you and them.. that is dualistic.. you must remove the boundary.. and be compassionate to accept everything in reality.. see the difference... you are blue... what you are saying here is blue..   you can spot it by all the keywords there.. try to watch spiral dynamics blue stage,.. a 5times.. and study it whole heartedly and please do your work.. push yourself to do the spiritual work..  you will be conscious for everything i said here.. haha

[Edvard]

19 hours ago, John Iverson said:

I am not saying "Less Develop" nothing in my explanation there i say Less Develop..

Well, technically Blue is lower on the scale than Green, right? So in that sense you're saying it. And I didn't say "less developed" means something negative. There is a reason I put it in quotation marks...

19 hours ago, John Iverson said:

The Blue everything here in protecting of something is a pure ego... there is nothing to protect.. all must surrendered the very big surrender that you can surrender is yourself.. not for the nation or for the people but to the universe.. there is a big difference of surrender for enlightenment and surrender for the external world.. because external world doesn't exist it is an illusion, in this kind of stage and that stage can you spot the difference? HAHAHA! do i cling to external world? Do i cling to my Nation? I want to make you see the difference of every stage for you to see how blue is this.. ?..  for every stage there is a big difference.. orange is different values than blue.. i am not saying blue is less develop.. it is just that evolution... and their is difference about their own essense... that's it.. try to say to blue that stop believing that your nation is good and bad and worth protecting, and there is nothing to value , don't try to sacrifice your life for people because you cannot count on others to do same for you if you think others can count to do the same for you because you and them are one,.. the only thing you can do is make them conscious of who they are to make them see who is the true evil .. and for there at all to exist a nation where can thrive?? Nothing exist.. all is illusion.. thrive is an illusion there is nothing to thrive.. nation is a concept... protecting the nation and also protects your right to go to school to practice yoga, to speak freely????,,.. nation is a concept.... rights is a limited... it is also a concept.. when you say right it has someone taking your ability to something.. so there is you and them.. that is dualistic.. you must remove the boundary.. and be compassionate to accept everything in reality.. see the difference... you are blue... what you are saying here is blue..   you can spot it by all the keywords there.. try to watch spiral dynamics blue stage,.. a 5times.. and study it whole heartedly and please do your work.. push yourself to do the spiritual work..  you will be conscious for everything i said here.. haha

You don't sound very practical. You talk about these utopic perfect ideas about no borders, and getting rid of ego... but do you do that in practice? Ego is necessary, it keeps us alive. Of course, in the absolute it doesn't matter who wins a war between Hitler's Germany and the US, but if you were a US citizen at that time, I think I know which side you would root for, in practice. This is part of the problem about Green. It clings to a conceptual view of reality, and becomes fundamentalists in regards to "nice" models, thinking everything is perfect. Yes, technically it is, but that doesn't help you at all in practice. In practice, we need borders to survive. You seem pretty sure about your views without even considering nuances or that you may have misunderstood something. It sounds like you believe you are Turqoise or something; regardless, I would try to be a little more mindful of the possibility to keep evolving. Maybe perspectives would change. 

I don't even care if I was Blue... I would have no problem admitting that if it was true, but there is no way, sorry. Blue is not secular. Blue is not into renewable energy sources, like I am. Blue is rigid and conservative, I am flexible and open to any possibility, and yes, I also view the whole world as "one organism", ultimately. 

And Green tends to think everything and everyone is perfect, but also applies that in practice, the idea of tolerance for everybody, which is, you know, not very practicle in today's world. To me you sound kinda Greenish. And then you don't agree with Yellow. If you were Turqoise (while Turquiose I think largely would agree with Yellow, but also not being involved as much, spending more of its time in being) you would have recognized this thinking and called me Yellow or Coral, while Green would sometimes conflate that kind of thinking with Blue and Orange, like you seem to be doing. 

With all this said, I don't doubt that the US is spending waay too much on military. But that's another matter.

We can hold the ideas about peace and love as the ultimate goal, or Northern Star for humanity (as Obama puts it), while at the same time not counting on a revolution in human nature, but rather a gradual evolution in human institutions (as Kennedy said). Found the quote:

"Let us focus instead on a more practical, more attainable peace-- based not on a sudden revolution in human nature but on a gradual evolution in human institutions--on a series of concrete actions and effective agreements which are in the interest of all concerned. There is no single, simple key to this peace--no grand or magic formula to be adopted by one or two powers. Genuine peace must be the product of many nations, the sum of many acts. It must be dynamic, not static, changing to meet the challenge of each new generation. For peace is a process--a way of solving problems.

With such a peace, there will still be quarrels and conflicting interests, as there are within families and nations. World peace, like community peace, does not require that each man love his neighbor--it requires only that they live together in mutual tolerance, submitting their disputes to a just and peaceful settlement. And history teaches us that enmities between nations, as between individuals, do not last forever. However fixed our likes and dislikes may seem, the tide of time and events will often bring surprising changes in the relations between nations and neighbors." 

- JFK

https://www.jfklibrary.org/Research/Research-Aids/JFK-Speeches/American-University_19630610.aspx

That I would say is a decent example of Yellow thinking.

 

Also,

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by Edvard

[Everyday]

 

https://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2013/09/the-respect-bees-have-for-holy-icons.html?m=1

 

[Joseph Maynor]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Elder

Edited June 23, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[John Iverson]

On 6/23/2018 at 6:37 PM, Edvard said:

Well, technically Blue is lower on the scale than Green, right? So in that sense you're saying it. And I didn't say "less developed" means something negative. There is a reason I put it in quotation marks...

You don't sound very practical. You talk about these utopic perfect ideas about no borders, and getting rid of ego... but do you do that in practice? Ego is necessary, it keeps us alive. Of course, in the absolute it doesn't matter who wins a war between Hitler's Germany and the US, but if you were a US citizen at that time, I think I know which side you would root for, in practice. This is part of the problem about Green. It clings to a conceptual view of reality, and becomes fundamentalists in regards to "nice" models, thinking everything is perfect. Yes, technically it is, but that doesn't help you at all in practice. In practice, we need borders to survive. You seem pretty sure about your views without even considering nuances or that you may have misunderstood something. It sounds like you believe you are Turqoise or something; regardless, I would try to be a little more mindful of the possibility to keep evolving. Maybe perspectives would change. 

I don't even care if I was Blue... I would have no problem admitting that if it was true, but there is no way, sorry. Blue is not secular. Blue is not into renewable energy sources, like I am. Blue is rigid and conservative, I am flexible and open to any possibility, and yes, I also view the whole world as "one organism", ultimately. 

And Green tends to think everything and everyone is perfect, but also applies that in practice, the idea of tolerance for everybody, which is, you know, not very practicle in today's world. To me you sound kinda Greenish. And then you don't agree with Yellow. If you were Turqoise (while Turquiose I think largely would agree with Yellow, but also not being involved as much, spending more of its time in being) you would have recognized this thinking and called me Yellow or Coral, while Green would sometimes conflate that kind of thinking with Blue and Orange, like you seem to be doing. 

With all this said, I don't doubt that the US is spending waay too much on military. But that's another matter.

We can hold the ideas about peace and love as the ultimate goal, or Northern Star for humanity (as Obama puts it), while at the same time not counting on a revolution in human nature, but rather a gradual evolution in human institutions (as Kennedy said). Found the quote:

"Let us focus instead on a more practical, more attainable peace-- based not on a sudden revolution in human nature but on a gradual evolution in human institutions--on a series of concrete actions and effective agreements which are in the interest of all concerned. There is no single, simple key to this peace--no grand or magic formula to be adopted by one or two powers. Genuine peace must be the product of many nations, the sum of many acts. It must be dynamic, not static, changing to meet the challenge of each new generation. For peace is a process--a way of solving problems.

With such a peace, there will still be quarrels and conflicting interests, as there are within families and nations. World peace, like community peace, does not require that each man love his neighbor--it requires only that they live together in mutual tolerance, submitting their disputes to a just and peaceful settlement. And history teaches us that enmities between nations, as between individuals, do not last forever. However fixed our likes and dislikes may seem, the tide of time and events will often bring surprising changes in the relations between nations and neighbors." 

- JFK

https://www.jfklibrary.org/Research/Research-Aids/JFK-Speeches/American-University_19630610.aspx

That I would say is a decent example of Yellow thinking.

 

Also,

 

Did you watch now the Orange stage in spiral dynamics that Leo Uploaded ? Haha what you are saying is Blue.. and orange cannot think that way.. it is different.. let's see in Green! ☺️You will see every stage is different and cannot think the way your ideology projecting to every stage... you will see that what you are saying and try to communicate to me is stage blue.. not stage orange, green or turquoise... even yellow

[Joseph Maynor]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Robbins

Edited June 24, 2018 by Joseph Maynor