Spiral Dynamics Stage Blue Examples Mega-Thread

[Revolutionary Think]

   

[Edvard]

49 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's because your personal lack of development clouds your vision. You cannot understand Yellow until you're at Yellow yourself.

As you become more conscious, you will understand that a stage Yellow person would never behave the way Trump does.

Trump is nowhere close to Yellow. Not even a little bit.

To me you seem to be conflating "level of development" with how informed a person is, or how he interprets information. My view of Trump could be a lack of information simply. You don't know what Trump thinks, but maybe you understand politics better (or having more info), IDK. He is pragmatic, and he is not stupid. And I said he doesn't seem like yellow, and probably isn't. My head was certainly concerned about him for a while (because every person I respected despised him, like i.e. Sam Harris and Secular Talk), and I would probably vote for Hillary if I was a US citizen, but there was also a lot of truth in what he was saying, although applied to a certain portion of the population that thought a certain way. Trump exploited their situation, and no one else seemed to understand it, seeing Trump winning. How do you explain that? He obviously saw something the liberals didn't. BTW, my personality is very far from Trump's, but I know that there is no right or wrong personality, and Trump's could have its benefits. He is acting in response to his environment. And as I said, he may be Red/Orange.

You just sound like a fundamentalist when you say that somebody would absolutely act "this" if they were "that". You could be right in the sense that Trump is not ideological, which makes red, orange and yellow open. But he does get along with people, even enemies of the US, and that takes an open mind, not a closed and wild one. On a personal level he also gets along with Obama, calling him "a very good man", which a typical Red person probably never would do...

My suggestion or theory is that he is a mix of both red, orange and yellow, but that's a very open one.

You also said that Trump and Kim may be Turqoise acting like Red, but maybe that was a joke.  

 

So what stage do you think I'm at? You should be able to see that now, who claim to be strongly yellow?

 

My take on your level is Green tapping into Yellow. But that's just based on my understanding of SD.

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Edvard

[Leo Gura]

59 minutes ago, Revolutionary Think said:

Sometimes they use science to back themselves up.

Definitely

The ego-mind uses science to back up whatever worldview it has, and rejects science in those areas where it contradicts the worldview.

The name of the game is very simple: defend my worldview come what may, at any cost, because my worldview is absolutely true.

The delicious irony is that science uses science & reason in exactly the same manner, creating a circular justification for itself.

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Outer said:

Something you used to do... Before your meditation retreat.

No, I never said that.

I knew since my teenage years that my worldview is not absolutely true.

I explained this long ago in my epistemology episodes.

When I speak of Absolute Infinity, don't confuse that with a worldview.

Nothing I have ever said is the Truth. Nor will it ever be. You guys still don't get that.

Since the first Actualized video 5 years ago, I have never been under the impression that what I say is Truth. It only seems that way from your perspective. I make a clear distinction in my mind between concept and reality. Most of you guys don't, so you project that paradigm onto my speech and teachings, which is understandable, but it gives you an inaccurate sense of my worldview.

My worldview is that all worldviews are false, including my worldview. This has been my worldview since I was about 18.

[Revolutionary Think]

Nice new quote Leo what made you change it from the Socrates one? 

[White]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My worldview is that all worldviews are false, including my worldview. This has been my worldview since I was about 18.

Which would give you great flexibility in your life 

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura Hitler was not blue at all,  thats how media wants to see him. Read the biography from his only friend August Kubizek. Hitler hated school system as he was young, disliked religions. He knew instinctly that most german people are red/blue and used to manipulate them. He gave different speeches to different people dependend on their classes. 

He loved the war, because it teached him so much about reality. there he had his deepest insights always being close to death. It seems he had paranormal abilitys because of his consciousness level if you research a little more, dont want to go out too far here.

He is an good example of yellow/turquise I thing, he was a strong system thinker thats for sure, not enlightened but very close to enlightenment I think. His idea  of swastika he had from buddhism.  He was not possessed or fanatic about germany at all , that s just media. in his view it was even good that germany was defeated at the end. He admired many cultures not only his own. He was thinking about the world as the whole, wanted just the best for humanity from his own view. He had deep love for everyone, most for children and animals

No one should know who he really was, Hitler knew this at best. Because red/blue people wont like this. And today winners write history so he is just the cartoonish evil guy

 

 

[Leo Gura]

@OBEler Lol, and his hatred for Jews was what exactly?

You guys sure find clever ways to justify your dictatorial leaders.

I have studied Hitler. He was the epitome of Blue. He was also zonked out of his mind on meth and other narcotics.

If you give someone like Alex Jones absolute power, he becomes a Hitler-like character.

[Joseph Maynor]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Elder

Edited June 21, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Nixon

Edited June 21, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[WildeChilde]

3 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura Hitler was not blue at all,  thats how media wants to see him. Read the biography from his only friend August Kubizek. Hitler hated school system as he was young, disliked religions. He knew instinctly that most german people are red/blue and used to manipulate them. He gave different speeches to different people dependend on their classes. 

He loved the war, because it teached him so much about reality. there he had his deepest insights always being close to death. It seems he had paranormal abilitys because of his consciousness level if you research a little more, dont want to go out too far here.

He is an good example of yellow/turquise I thing, he was a strong system thinker thats for sure, not enlightened but very close to enlightenment I think. His idea  of swastika he had from buddhism.  He was not possessed or fanatic about germany at all , that s just media. in his view it was even good that germany was defeated at the end. He admired many cultures not only his own. He was thinking about the world as the whole, wanted just the best for humanity from his own view. He had deep love for everyone, most for children and animals

No one should know who he really was, Hitler knew this at best. Because red/blue people wont like this. And today winners write history so he is just the cartoonish evil guy

 

 

@OBEler Don't worry; you're not the only one here that knows about Hitler's other side.  He's truly one of the most misunderstood figures in history.  I promised Leo I'd be good from now on, so I'm not going to put a link for the documentary that talks about it on here (You might know it already).  Instead, I'll just leave a quote for others here to consider:

"Pride in one's own race—and that does not imply contempt for other races—is also a normal and healthy sentiment. I have never regarded the Chinese or the Japanese as being inferior to ourselves. They belong to ancient civilisations, and I admit freely that their past history is superior to our own. They have the right to be proud of their past, just as we have the right to be proud of the civilisation to which we belong." -Adolf Hitler

Genoud, François, ed. (1961). The Testament of Adolf Hitler: the Hitler-Bormann documents, February-April 1945. London: Cassell

 

[Key Elements]

The problem is there's no such thing as a "race" (or religion). You don't have to define yourself according to someone else's definition (or the government's). You don't need to allow others to drop you in some category. Talking about these types of topics gets nowhere.

I feel like posting clips of ppl chatting away at parties (Eg. Kitty parties) and gossiping about which category who belongs to, and who's been having sex with who (Eg. Latest talks on the divorced daughters-in-law). Unfortunately, I can't find one in English.

[Leo Gura]

@WildeChilde Enough of this nationalist nonsense.

Quote

"Once I really am in power, my first and foremost task will be the annihilation of the Jews. As soon as I have the power to do so, I will have gallows built in rows—at the Marienplatz in Munich, for example—as many as traffic allows. Then the Jews will be hanged indiscriminately, and they will remain hanging until they stink; they will hang there as long as the principles of hygiene permit. As soon as they have been untied, the next batch will be strung up, and so on down the line, until the last Jew in Munich has been exterminated. Other cities will follow suit, precisely in this fashion, until all Germany has been completely cleansed of Jews."

-- Hitler's statement to Josef Heil, 1922 quoted in Gerald Fleming, Hitler and the Final Solution

I don't even understand why you're on this forum. Consciousness is not for you.

Nationalism is ego, plain and simple.

[Revolutionary Think]

@Leo Gura agreed nationalism is an illusion of the ego. It's created by people the ground doesn't have a name it's humans that say this/that soil is ours etc. 

[sarapr]

 No one's found anything on Korean, Japanese or Chinese blue people?

These countries still remain mostly alien to us. 

[White]

@OBEler

8 hours ago, OBEler said:

He is an good example of yellow/turquise I thing, he was a strong system thinker thats for sure, not enlightened but very close to enlightenment I think.

What?

[tsuki]

Hey, @Leo Gura.
I just thought that it would be a good idea to put this thread in a form of a playlist on your channel.
You could create playlists for all colors like that.
You could synergize your forum with youtube that way.

[SoothedByRain]

@sarapr  I couldn't find anything on Hermit Japan worth sharing but it was obviously Deep Blue for so much of the last 500 to a 1000 years (No idea how long) Scorsese's newest movie Silence is all about Japan defending itself against Jesuit Priests and Catholicism. Trailer below. It is a long film and great for observing Ego and history. I recommend. Beautiful Cinematography.

I doubt there are any documentaries of worth talking about such since there is no footage or pictures etc. Perhaps there are books people might be able to recommend. I'm not sure what other Hermit like Kingdoms or Empires there were throughout history. I only know of Japan and todays North Korea. These two are another Deep Blue Extreme very much like how Nazi Germany or Communist China is an Extreme Deep Blue. Man made Dejima in Nagasaki is pretty fascinating to look at for an hour. The Japanese were brutal at defending their truth and collective ego.

[Joseph Maynor]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No, I never said that.

I knew since my teenage years that my worldview is not absolutely true.

I explained this long ago in my epistemology episodes.

When I speak of Absolute Infinity, don't confuse that with a worldview.

Nothing I have ever said is the Truth. Nor will it ever be. You guys still don't get that.

Since the first Actualized video 5 years ago, I have never been under the impression that what I say is Truth. It only seems that way from your perspective. I make a clear distinction in my mind between concept and reality. Most of you guys don't, so you project that paradigm onto my speech and teachings, which is understandable, but it gives you an inaccurate sense of my worldview.

My worldview is that all worldviews are false, including my worldview. This has been my worldview since I was about 18.

It’s one thing to say you’re not ideological, it’s another thing to embody that.  You still got one foot in Green Leo.  Like I said, you need to make a full release from Green-Yellow into Yellow.  If you can do that, your whole life and worldview will change.  You need to give your Ego permission to exist to go into Yellow.  Stop pretending like Ego is something that you are not.   What you’re doing there is trapping yourself in ideology.  You gotta let Ego exist — and actually Turquoise embodies Ego, they accept the Ego.    The key is to be aware of the Ego and to let it evolve. Everybody has Ego, and that means everybody.  Ego is not a theory.  It’s an emergent property of all complex adaptive systems.  So trying to run away from Ego is really naive.   It’s there.  All you can do is become aware of it, better understand it, and watch it evolve as you go up the Spiral.  I think stage Green tends to want to arms-length the Ego( they demonize the Ego.  That’s unsustainable!  The Ego is a system that has to be worked around.  It’s there, it can’t be escaped.  I don’t even like the word ‘Ego Transcendence’ anymore for this very reason.  It kind of conotes that Ego can be let go, and that’s just not how Enlightenment works in my experience.  

Edited June 21, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[WildeChilde]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@WildeChilde Enough of this nationalist nonsense.

I don't even understand why you're on this forum. Consciousness is not for you.

Nationalism is ego, plain and simple.

@Leo Gura

This'll be my last one Leo.  I realized I’ve probably crossed the line here and will be leaving.  I’m still going to watch your videos, buy your products (they’ve been very helpful), and keep my meditation routine going.  

Just to clarify, I’m not a Neo-Nazi.  History can be written and interpreted in various ways, and unless we were there when it happened, can we really know for certain?  This is why I remain open to whatever the evidence may be.  As you can see from my previous quote, I’m not praising Hitler; I simply wanted to demonstrate that he may not be the purely evil, two-dimensional character he is often depicted as.  This was the only depiction I was given while attending school and university.

Further, I’m not a nationalist.  I am, however, proud of my heritage and the contributions of those that came before me.  If I understand correctly Leo, you and your family immigrated to the United States from Europe when you were younger.  In contrast, many of my ancestors have resided here prior to even the Revolution.  Several of my forefathers fought wars here.  I own the helmet of my grandfather from when he fought in WWII.  My father also served in the military for this country and volunteered to fight in Vietnam.  When you have this kind of heritage and learn about it at an early age, you really come to appreciate and honor those that came before you.  It took a lot of struggle so I’d be here enjoying my life in a powerful, developed country.

I wanted to post in this thread because I’m in Stage Blue and wanted to show you all how many of us think.  

You’re probably right Leo; consciousness work is not right for me.  I’m going to keep at it still, and maybe things will change.  If not, that’s okay too; I’ve had fun and had some interesting experiences I wouldn’t have had otherwise.

I’ve learned a great deal and have a lot of respect for you and everyone on here.  I hope ultimately you all find what you are looking for.  Farewell everybody.