lmfao

Leo's stage blue video is good.

105 posts in this topic

Leo I love the video you made today man. I think you nailed down the essence of stage blue and how it typically manifests. 

Watching your video made me anxious lol because it triggered bad memories I had with stage blue thinking, since I'm an atheist living with a Muslim Pakistani family in Britain. I've had a lot of experience with the type of thinking you talked about in the video. I've visited Pakistan many times to meet my family as a child and I've interacted with Muslim communities a lot. I had to regularly go to a madrasa since when I was a young child to just a few years ago when I was 14.

I feel hateful towards religious fundamentalists because of the psychological and social damage they can do to you. I will probably have future problems because of the messed up social conditioning stage blue upbringing gives you. 

I'm finding it hard to release this hatred I feel towards stage blue and towards the people who exhibit it. Whenever "shit gets real" and personal for you it becomes a lot harder to remain present and mindful, but I've started to realise a little that my  hatred is the result of my ego not being able to just let go. But I shall try to let go. 

Even if I release hatred of stage blue people, they sure as hell ain't gonna be the type of people I usually hang out with. I'm very a politically incorrect person with dark humour who finds many of societies institutions to be a joke. Whenever I see a situation my natural inclination is to not moralise. Very different from self people who get offended and emotional over the most petty things. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by lmfao

Hark ye yet again — the little lower layer. All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event — in the living act, the undoubted deed — there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there's naught beyond. But 'tis enough.

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@lmfao Yeah, it's tough not to judge the lower stages. You really gotta grow into deep Yellow and Turquoise in order to be able to look upon Blue and the other stages without animosity. At Turquoise there is a deep realization that everything within reality is necessary and perfect. When you realize that, you see that every person is precisely where they must be. It makes no sense any longer to blame or criticize people for their ignorance because they know not what they do and they cannot help themselves.

The only way to attain peace for yourself is to totally drop all judgment of people and reality. And this can only happen by becoming conscious of the truth of nonduality. You have to realize that self/other are literally identical.

If you accomplish that, you will be left with unconditional love for all. You will see the world the way God sees it: perfect as it is.

One of the biggest obstacles to enlightenment is giving up all your judgments, demonizations, and criticisms of reality.

Imagine being unable to judge anyone or anything ever again. Such a notion scares most people. Unconditional love is very radical. The ego cannot stand it. It's too dangerous from the ego's perspective.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@lmfao Yeah, it's tough not to judge the lower stages. You really gotta grow into deep Yellow and Turquoise in order to be able to look upon Blue and the other stages without animosity. At Turquoise there is a deep realization that everything within reality is necessary and perfect. When you realize that, you see that every person is precisely where they must be. It makes no sense any longer to blame or criticize people for their ignorance because they know not what they do and they cannot help themselves.

The only way to attain peace for yourself is to totally drop all judgment of people and reality. And this can only happen by becoming conscious of the truth of nonduality. You have to realize that self/other are literally identical.

If you accomplish that, you will be left with unconditional love for all. You will see the world the way God sees it: perfect as it is.

One of the biggest obstacles to enlightenment is giving up all your judgments, demonizations, and criticisms of reality.

Imagine being unable to judge anyone or anything ever again. Such a notion scares most people. Unconditional love is very radical. The ego cannot stand it. It's too dangerous from the ego's perspective.

Then why teach?  If you’re at Turquoise, why teach.  See, Turquoise doesn’t quite work like that.  Be careful with defining Turquoise like that.  It’s true in part — but Turquoise teaches and has a Life Purpose that they are implementing.  In fact, Truth is what Turquoise is most interested in.  Turquoise influences people and changes systems just like Yellow does.  Turquoise doesn’t just let things be — that’s a bad assumption.  Turquoise is interested in being in a Network of Perspectives and influencing the entire Network for the better — and also being influenced by the Network of Perspectives.  Man, I hope you get Turquoise right.  I have confidence you’ll get the other stages right.  Make sure to skim my Journal Vol. 4 where I talk quite a bit about Turquoise as part of your research for Turquoise (and for Yellow).   Enlightenment is not tied to Growth Level.  You can be Enlightened at Stage Blue.  Turquoise probably requires Enlightenment, but it’s not synonymous with Enlightenment.  I want you to do a great Yellow and a great Turquoise.  Don’t be hasty.  This series of videos has the potential to be really useful as a tool in Personal Development, I want them all to be on point.  Nice job on Stage Blue by the way.

I have a feeling you’re gonna define Turqoiose in terms of what you conceptually think Enlightenment is — and that’s just not accurately Stage Turquoise.  You’re gonna justify your own ideology that way to yourself and to others, which is a sneaky Ego trap. How do I know?  Because I’ve actually (not theoretically) been entering Turquoise myself for months now. Turquoise isn’t ideological and doesnt cling to Conceptual Truths about Enlightenment!  I’m not confident you know what Turquoise is, and it would be a shame to make a misleading video about Stage Turquoise that will have to be cleaned-up by others later.  Maybe you should stop at Stage Yellow to err on the side of caution.

Another thing to to keep in mind is that Yellow and Turqioise can morph themselves into all the lower stages at will — like a chameleon.  Once you understand systems thinking at Yellow and learn the Colors (the vMemes), you have more tools in your tool belt to create systems to change systems.  Even if Steve Jobs is at Turquoise, as he probably was later in his career — he can still put on the hat of Yellow when he needs to, right.  So, just like Yellow, Turquoise understands Perspectives, but even deeper.  Turquoise becomes the Network of Perspectives all interacting with each other.  That Network is a system that Turquoise is giving to and receiving from — with the benevolent aim of lifting up the entire Network.  That’s the essence of Turquoise.  So, make no mistake about it — Turquoise has a Life Purpose that they’re executing.  They’re not just floating around in La La Land.   It’s the Green people who think they’re Turquoise that are floating around in La La Land!  So, be careful.  We gotta get this right to help others grow.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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@Leo Gura I find it accurate. It's a hard trip to not judge anyone and see it as perfect no matter how shitty some types of behaviors looks like. I feel trapped in a loop of: 

- This behavior is reprehensible

- Shit, i just made a judgment, i suck.

- Oh shit, i must not judge myself either.

*Trapped in a spiral of guilt and shame*

I find that it's often harder to have empathy toward myself than to others. Maybe it's because we often see others behaviors only partially and we can see every single egotistical thought of ours (even the darker and more secret ones) and all of our mistakes. 

One must have to feel, experience unconditional love and actually see the perfection of all, otherwise, you are going to try to imitate a saint behaviour from the standpoint of the ego, always serving its interests, no matter how "holy" your behavior looks like on the outside and even to yourself (the subconscious drive to self-preservation always wins until you SEE the oneness of all). Idon't know  how to escape this trap without having such experience. Intellectualize is not enough. 

Edited by Recursoinominado

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@Recursoinominado That's right. You cannot get to unconditional acceptance through intellectualization or belief. You need to start having some nondual experiences, mystical experiences. Psychedelics or yoga/meditation is the way.

But practicing active non-judgment is also very helpful.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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@Joseph Maynor I never said Turquoise doesn't act.

At the deepest levels of nonduality all action is pointless. You could just shoot yourself and it would be okay. It's all perfect. Teaching is pointless of course. But in practice you will probably just carry on with life, for shits and giggles, and probably teach.

The world cannot be improved in any way at all. It is an Absolute singularity, and everything is already contained within it for eternity. But this is not something that can be explained, and it certainly sits outside of Spiral Dynamics so I don't even talk about it. You will only discover this for yourself, at the very deepest levels of nondual consciousness. At which point, you will no longer need me or anyone else to guide you.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Joseph Maynor I never said Turquoise doesn't act.

At the deepest levels of nonduality all action is pointless. You could just shoot yourself and it would be okay. It's all perfect. Teaching is pointless of course. But in practice you will probably just carry on with life, for shits and giggles, and probably teach.

The world cannot be improved in any way at all. It is an Absolute singularity, and everything is already contained within it for eternity.

The idea that the world is perfect is a thought-story.  It’s bullshit.  Don’t cling to that belief.  Yoi’re still clinging way too much to beliefs.  You haven’t transcended beliefs yet. 

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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@Joseph Maynor You speak of things you've yet to realize.

Finger pointing to the moon.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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@Leo Gura One question that popped up during the video was if past civilizations and empires evolved into a stage like orange and green, but were later taken over by a lower stage. For example, the ancient greeks were very accepting of homosexuality and other practices that were considered very taboo by other civilizations. Even the romans were accepting of this behavior. However, when these empires collapse it seems like life when backwards and all progress just stopped. Have lower stage civilizations taken over higher stages in the past?

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4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Joseph Maynor You speak of things you've yet to realize.

Finger pointing to the moon.

Another thought-story.   Don’t try to fight awareness with thought-stories.  That ship won’’t sail.

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@Joseph Maynor Isnt any opinion about the world a thought-story? Its neither perfect not terrible... its...

Edited by Rilles

Dont look at me! Look inside!

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6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The world cannot be improved in any way at all. It is an Absolute singularity, and everything is already contained within it for eternity.

And paradoxically, all improvement comes forth from the knowing that there's nothing to improve. 

That's the joke. Spiritual teachers aren't teaching you anything. They're not pointing you to things that need improvement. They're just showing you what's true. There's no effort in that. No need to persuade. Simply a one to one translation of reality as they experience it.

And it turns out, that which is True, is always evolving. So in the simple act of sharing Truth, things start 'improving' automatically. Or evolving.
That's how something that is already perfect can continuously 'improve' itself. But it's never better or worse.

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19 minutes ago, carlos flores said:

@Leo Gura One question that popped up during the video was if past civilizations and empires evolved into a stage like orange and green, but were later taken over by a lower stage. For example, the ancient greeks were very accepting of homosexuality and other practices that were considered very taboo by other civilizations. Even the romans were accepting of this behavior. However, when these empires collapse it seems like life when backwards and all progress just stopped. Have lower stage civilizations taken over higher stages in the past?

It's a tricky topic. It's hard to judge from our vantage point who was more advanced, Rome/Greece vs the Christian empire. The Middle Ages were not as dark as is popularly assumed.

Don't forget, up to 45% of the Roman population were slaves. It's difficult for us to imagine just how barbaric and cruel life was in these ancient civilizations. Sure, homosexuality might have been accepted, but you could also be thrown into a pit of lions for some random reason, or your wife raped on the side of a bridge crossing.

If a Roman city was sacked, all the men were slaughtered and all the women and children sold into slavery.

Christianity did bring about a certain degree of moral order.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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@Joseph Maynor I've heard you use the term "thought-story" a lot. What does that term mean to you? Right now we are on a forum and we communicate with each other in words, and words are essentially the fruit of thought. So isn't everything we say a thought-story? 


Hark ye yet again — the little lower layer. All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event — in the living act, the undoubted deed — there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there's naught beyond. But 'tis enough.

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21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Joseph Maynor You speak of things you've yet to realize.

Finger pointing to the moon.

Check out my posts about Tier-One vs. Tier-Two Epistemology in my Journal Vol. 4.  You haven’t transcended the ‘Conceptual Truth Paradigm’ yet.  This is not an Enlightenment issue — this is a Conceptual Understanding issue — a paradigm issue.  So, your Enlightenment is really irrelevant to examining the sandbox of the Conceptual Understanding.  Belief is a cultural construct and paradigm.  This is deep work that you don’t understand fully get.  You got a ways to go.  You know a lot about Enlightenment, but you’re still learning when it comes to the Conceptual Understanding.  Enlightenment alone don’t cut it.  You need to create and develop your Conceptual Understanding too — which is a complex system that has an emergent Ego of its own.  You still got quite few things to learn on the Epistemology side of the Philosophy Coin.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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@Leo Gura Thank you for the response. I loved your video because it really helped me understand things better, especially with understanding my own country. In Mexico, people tend to be very traditionalist, religious and nationalist. Today I read that 40,000 mexicans traveled to russia to attend the Germany vs Mexico soccer game compared to 4,000 germans (even though Germany it's about 3-4 hours away from Russia). Many in the media talked about it like a good thing, but in my mind I saw it as a very blue stage type of thinking. Traveling all that way and spending so much money felt like a very nationalist and patriotic thing a blue stage person would do. Maybe I could be exaggerating, but that was my first reaction.

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@Joseph Maynor Can you define what you mean by perfection? I have a feeling two of you are disagreeing because you have very different definitions of the same word.


“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.” 
― Socrates

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5 minutes ago, WaterfallMachine said:

@Joseph Maynor Can you define what you mean by perfection? I have a feeling two of you are disagreeing because you have very different definitions of the same word.

Which word?  I don’t think I used ‘perfection’.

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5 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Which word?  I don’t think I used ‘perfection’.

But you've commented on Leo's idea of perfection, suggesting some unsaid beliefs onto what it means. I can't ask Leo for his definition because I require personal experience for that, but maybe I can ask you.


“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.” 
― Socrates

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4 minutes ago, WaterfallMachine said:

But you've commented on Leo's idea of perfection, suggesting some unsaid beliefs onto what it means. I can't ask Leo for his definition because I require personal experience for that, but maybe I can ask you.

Quote me what I said 

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