Joseph Maynor

I sense an anger in Jordan Peterson, it's a vibe

68 posts in this topic

10 minutes ago, Outer said:

I skimmed a few pictures of the spiral stuff and I think it's materialistic dogma.

It's not.  If it was Materialist dogma, don't you think I would sniff that out in 2 seconds?  Come on.  I'm no dummy.  And I have a degree in Philosophy.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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6 minutes ago, Outer said:

I skimmed a few pictures of the spiral stuff and I think it's materialistic dogma.

Didn't you say JP was yellow/turquoise? How can you categorize him on that scale if you don't beleive in it? 


Isn't it so, yes or no? 

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How many threads does this guy deserve?  In this subforum? 

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11 minutes ago, Spacious said:

@Outer @MarkusSweden @Joseph Maynor Who of you has read Ken Wilber's free ebook Trump And The Post Truth World? Peterson's understanding of postmodernism, and the consequential nihilism is highlighted by Ken in this book, and is mirrored in everything Peterson has said. Wilber is extremely critical of stage green.

Stage Green is naive because of their ignorance of Systems Thinking.  Take the liberal college student, that's very typical Stage Green.  When that college student goes out into the real world and gets pounded around a lot and has to learn how to take that Stage Green spirit and make it work in the real world -- Stage Yellow is the growth level that can make that happen, so you get an elevation into Yellow.  This happened to me.  I experienced this transition.  Green has to wise up about how to change systems.  You don't change systems with visions alone.  Systems are complex and require a systems thinking approach to sustainably change them.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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@Etagnwo You're obviously a sharp guy. 

What I fail to understand is why you always let stupidity frustrates you so much. 

You will always be able to see dirty intentions, faild logic, incoherent statements. It happens all the time.

Even if you removed Anna, me, Joseph, Pluto, Quanty from this site, other people would fill our shoes in no time. 

Mediocre people will always stand out and be irritating from your perspective. But that's at least better Then to be one of us. 

Let it be? Ever heard that song?  


Isn't it so, yes or no? 

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*awaits the start of another argument*?


Dont look at me! Look inside!

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5 minutes ago, Rilles said:

*awaits the start of another argument*?

haha, you know it

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21 minutes ago, MarkusSweden said:

@Etagnwo You're obviously a sharp guy. 

What I fail to understand is why you always let stupidity frustrates you so much. 

You will always be able to see dirty intentions, faild logic, incoherent statements. It happens all the time.

Even if you removed Anna, me, Joseph, Pluto, Quanty from this site, other people would fill our shoes in no time. 

Mediocre people will always stand out and be irritating from your perspective. But that's at least better Then to be one of us. 

Let it be? Ever heard that song?  

When someone is parading their ignorance, let them do that without interference.  They hang themselves.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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All who are interested in the Spiral Dynamics Model -- this is a great intro:

 

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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2 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

@MarkusSweden I'm trying to show you that you're not getting anywhere with your spiritual work. It's all a big mind game distracting you. Like a carrot dangling on the end of a stick promising enlightenment when people like sadhguru are making millions off of your stupidity. 

You might be right! But clearly, spiritual experiences exists, do you view them as something private that cannot be cultivated in a spiritual community and spread to others?

Different stages of consciousness exist, I never experienced them from any 'spiritual work' though, But from art/music experiences and psychedelics. 

But again, if there are different levels of consciousness, Then some level might be preferable over others and something to strive for. Hence a community where we strive and work towards "enlightened" consciousness, that can't be wrong, can it? 

Mayby all the methods and all the teachings aren't the right way though. 

Personally I only had one mayor experience within this spiritual circuit. It was a teching by Rupert Spira, "Direct path", he asked and elaborated around the question "are you aware?", something skifted for good in me from that lecture. 

Other Then that, all my "spiritual/enlightened" experiences always comes from something outside of This spiritual bubble, like when I'm out running, listening to music, playing with my Brothers kids, playing tennis or something else.

Are you an old member btw? Like NTO-Pingu, Mighty Mouse or Kurt? 


Isn't it so, yes or no? 

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@Etagnwo But Maybe people have to find out for themself, that there is no blissful state of consciousness to catch. Enlightened consciousness is a Mirage, otherwise we would have seen a few of them here. We haven' t had one truly enlightened member, have we? 

The best thing you can extract from This spiritual world with all its techiches and teachers might be the conceptual understanding of reality. That which you just wrote to me about. How we are part of the supreme being, how that will never change, no matter how enlightened or unelightened we are, hence no exclusive state of consciousness.


Isn't it so, yes or no? 

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6 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

@MarkusSweden You cannot evolve. All you can do is live in accordance with conventional reality. Traditionally this is called the dharma field. 

 

Isn't that just nitpicking over how a particular word is used? For some 'realizing that you are already the self' seems like an evolution, when it's actually removing layers to the core.. why get caught up in semantics

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4 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

It's not.  If it was Materialist dogma, don't you think I would sniff that out in 2 seconds?  Come on.  I'm no dummy.  And I have a degree in Philosophy.

What was even the point of created this thread @Joseph Maynor? The only purpose I can see is to cause an unnecessary argument over the person everyone on the planet seems to be totally obsessed with at the moment, Peterson. Also, not trying to make this personal, but have you even read out what you type, this quote above is so hilariously arrogant and irrelevant that I don't know whether to laugh or cringe....you clearly don't want a mature discussion about Peterson.

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“You don’t have problems; you are the problem.”

– Swami Chinmayananda

Namaste ? ?

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@Light Lover @Anna1

I don't see any problem with how  he express himself. 

He is confident, and I like it. Also, his threads are interesting with a personal touch to it. 

You feel it's a Joseph-thread so to speak. I like that. You want This place to be a superdry intellectual place where everything is perfectly coherrent and stringent? How boring. 

I think Joseph has a capacity for feelings, a big heart, and that is probably why you attack him.

Some kind of jealousy.

 

Edited by MarkusSweden

Isn't it so, yes or no? 

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@StephenK I agree with you pretty much 100% man. 

There seems to be a debate on this forum around how self actualized Jordan Peterson is, a debate around how "good" (I don't mean good in the moral sense of the word) his message is and a debate around his level of consciousness. 

I've listened to a fair bit of Jordan Peterson and read a bit of his 12 rules for life book. His social/political message to people is that life is meaningful, and therefore you must take responsibility. He's saying that the premise that life is meaningful at the level of the individual will lead to fulfillment. He says that whilst nihilism is intellectually valid it will leave you miserable.

Many young people, including myself, have become nihilistic unmotivated slugs who lack passion in life. Dogmatic religion has lost its grip over society as the stage blue paradigm has been broken down. Fundamentalist religion is clearly bullshit.

Despite fundamentalist religion having its flaws, it provided people with a sense of meaning to their lives. A spiritual vacuum has been created with the abandonment of religion. Now this is where Jordan Peterson message comes into play.

Jordan Peterson essentially argues you can find meaning and fulfillment  in life through pushing yourself to the limit in the pursuit for mastery/success in life. There is meaning in pursuing your art, meaning in facing your fears, meaning in raising your family and etc. When pushing yourself to the limit, you're at the border between "order and chaos" as he calls it. 

A vacuum has been created from the destruction of fundamentalist religion.

My critique of Jordan Peterson is that his message ignores the core problem, and will not directly lead to people becoming truly self actualized at all. I don't think his message in isolation is effective at getting people motivated. The only real solution I see is for people to do meditation/yoga. 

Peterson neurotically clings to the existence of meaning, neurotically clings to the existence of good and evil. If people want to really develop themselves, they need to learn to accept the present moment for what it is. People need to embrace the nihilism and grow from it, not sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist. 

That being said, there is definitely value in what Jordan Peterson says in when he encourages people to find their craft and master it. 

 

 

Edited by lmfao

Hark ye yet again — the little lower layer. All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event — in the living act, the undoubted deed — there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there's naught beyond. But 'tis enough.

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Does this Jordan Peterson fellow promote seeking psychological security through ones outward accomplishments? 

And if so, is that not a sign of seeking psychological insecurity in time, and imply the contradiction of an illusion seeking security in an illusion?

 Couldn’t we say that any action taken that is influenced by such a divisive movement of thought, would only lead to further conflict and deepen this state of illusion? 

 

If ones goes deep enough into oneself they will see that as long as there is this perpetual seeking to become psychologically secure there will continue to be psychological insecurity. You can see this all over the place in society. 

Its absolutely necessary if one is fortunate enough to have a craft and and cultivate that craft..

That being said, to cultivate psychological security is futile. This is the root reason for all psychological problems. The root cause of all relationship problems, and the root of the invention of all fundamentalist religion. 

Being insecure we seek security in meaning (thought) which is in itself the cause of psychological insecurity. 

To continue to nourish this type of neurotic movement and action is to sustain and further perpetuate this neurosis in the human stream of conciousness. 

Do we see that? 

Are not each one of us responsible for this stream of thought and it’s influence on the stream of consciousness of man kind?

 

 

 

Edited by Faceless

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4 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Are not each one of us responsible for this stream of thought and it’s influence on the stream of consciousness of man kind?

We are only responsible for the attachment of the stream. Can't stop the stream.


You're not human, you're the universe

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6 minutes ago, B_Naz said:

We are only responsible for the attachment of the stream. Can't stop the stream.

We are the stream. Yes our attatchment to the content of our conciouness is the very problem. 

If the attatchment ceases what does that imply? 

Edited by Faceless

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7 minutes ago, Faceless said:

We are the stream. Yes our attatchment to the content of our conciouness is the very problem. 

If the attatchment ceases what doesnthwt imply? 

No idea. Only one way to find out, and this is what it seems to me. But once we removed the attachment, there will no longer be the wanting of security, since security is a thought and attachment to that thought is causing it to be in motion.

Edited by B_Naz

You're not human, you're the universe

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