Trump & Kim - A Spiral Dynamics' Theory

[Mondsee]

Here's my thesis: Trump & Kim are on a much similar Spiral Dynamics' stages than past presidents of the US and Kim were, and that's why we're seeing that meeting happening now.

By much similar I mean either the very same stage, or a non-antagonistic one. Remember "neighboring stages" (for example blue and orange) are the ones which hate each other the most.

These are the combinations I think could be possible (take it with a grain of salt, I'm no expert in the characteristics of each stage)

- Kim could be mostly in stage red (3) and Trump mostly in stage orange (5)

- Kim could be mostly in stage red (3) and Trump personally in stage red (3) but trapped in stage blue (4) because of the American political system in place

- Kim could be mostly in stage red (3) and Trump personally in stage red (3) but trapped in stage orange (5) because of the American political system in place

Also, that would explain Trump breaking with relationships with all of its historical allies, or in other words:

- Trump is in stage red (3) leading a rather blue (4) and orange (5) country, not coming into terms with leaders of other blue (4), orange (5) or even somewhat green (6) countries.

 

[ChimpBrain]

Damn, I just made a post about this in another thread, only you were way more thorough. Props to you, good explanation. My vote is Kim = red, Trump = orange. Like you said, 2 complementary stages. 

[Amadeusz]

What about Trump being blend of red and orange? He's not that bad to be red all the way imho. He's big chunk is orange. I'd say that Trump is lets say 75% orange and 25% red. 

[Leo Gura]

Maybe they are both stage Turquoise, playing as stage Red/Orange, playing 100 moves ahead of us to disrupt the elite globalists and spread peace and love across the world

[zenjen]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Maybe they are both stage Turquoise, playing as stage Red/Orange, playing 100 moves ahead of us to disrupt the elite globalists and spread peace and love across the world

@Leo Gura You know sometimes I actually wonder this about famous people lol

[Mondsee]

@ChimpBrain Thanks! I'm a political scientist and at this point I just don't get to understand how spiral dynamics isn't one of the core models taught. Of course, when I showed it to one of my most rational friends from university, he laughed at the model, got irritated, and said it was a joke that so complex issues could be so over-simplified like that, and that he couldn't believe someone would take that model seriously... I on the other hand feel it has enormous potential.

@Amadeusz Yeah, I don't think one can be 100% in one level, maybe individuals who have long been in one of the higher stages and can identify the aspects in themselves that aren't in other stages and work to advance them more consciously of what they're actually doing, other than that, I guess we're all a mixture of colors. That being said, considering that Kim lived and went to an international school in Switzerland, it could very well be that the myths of him having some western forbidden pleasures are all true (like his obsession with NBA basketball - that one isn't even a myth, it's well known), which would belong to other stages than red, so he could also be mainly red, but somewhat orange, or even blue.

@Leo Gura Haha secretly laughing at the Norwegian Nobel Committee for not wanting to give them the Nobel Peace Prize given the entire theatre scenes they had to set up to get to this point. In the end it does go full circle, doesn't it?  Looking forward to your Spiral Dynamics Videos!

Edited June 12, 2018 by Mondsee

[Key Elements]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Maybe they are both stage Turquoise, playing as stage Red/Orange, playing 100 moves ahead of us to disrupt the elite globalists and spread peace and love across the world

You know, Leo, the thing with Trump is, he did a book with this guy:

Robert Kiyosaki. They hung out together a lot. I'm sure on a personal level, they got to know each other. Kiyosaki's book, Guide to Investing, helped me discover my LP. (Stepping stones.) I highly recommend that book. I know that Kiyosaki emphasises on becoming a philanthropist after becoming financially free as an entrepreneur. Now, why would Trump not understand that? I wonder. Kiyosaki's sister is also a Buddhist monk who follows Dalai Lama. She was dying from bodily cancer, and Kiyosaki saved her life by using his wealth and power. They even did a book together, Rich Brother Rich Sister. I wonder about these things because Trump must be knowing. Now, how much he is aware of it and capable of applying these things, we don't know. Maybe he's not aware of it as Kiyosaki. Who knows?

I also know that Kim did not grow up in purely North Korea. He was also in Switzerland going to school as part of his childhood. If a person is growing up in more than one place (country), it does have an impact.

The question is, how much are they applying their awareness? 

[Mondsee]

5 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

You know, Leo, the thing with Trump is, he did a book with this guy:

Robert Kiyosaki. They hung out together a lot. I'm sure on a personal level, they got to know each other. Kiyosaki's book, Guide to Investing, helped me discover my LP. (Stepping stones.) I highly recommend that book. I know that Kiyosaki emphasises on becoming a philanthropist after becoming financially free as an entrepreneur. Now, why would Trump not understand that? I wonder. Kiyosaki's sister is also a Buddhist monk who follows Dalai Lama. She was dying from bodily cancer, and Kiyosaki saved her life by using his wealth and power. They even did a book together, Rich Brother Rich Sister. I wonder about these things because Trump must be knowing. Now, how much he is aware of it and capable of applying these things, we don't know. Maybe he's not aware of it as Kiyosaki. Who knows?

Hahaha now this is a how 'nother level of conspiracy theory!

[Key Elements]

36 minutes ago, Mondsee said:

Hahaha now this is a how 'nother level of conspiracy theory!

Why can't you research and check it out, instead of assuming? I didn't say that Trump was aware of anything. I'm only saying that Trump and Kiyosaki was spending time together for a while in the past.

[Mondsee]

@Key Elements What am I assuming? I wasn't being sarcastic... we're talking about the same... You're the one assuming that I am assuming something!  

Edited June 12, 2018 by Mondsee

[Key Elements]

On 12/06/2018 at 3:59 PM, Mondsee said:

@Key Elements What am I assuming? I wasn't being sarcastic... we're talking about the same.

Oh ok...

I'm wondering about these things because he is our president. 

Why were you saying it's a conspiracy theory? Joking? Assuming? 

I've been watching Kiyosaki for a very long time (for a few years), and discovered half of my LP through him. The other half is through Leo.

And then, Trump stepped into the picture for long while. Kiyosaki and Trump became friends and hung around high end clubs talking a lot.

It only took you less than a minute to say that what I've posted was a conspiracy theory. 

Btw, conspiracy theories are against forum rules. Get your facts straight before you start accusing someone. 

[Jamie Universe]

1 hour ago, zenjen said:

@Leo Gura You know sometimes I actually wonder this about famous people lol

Ikr, I heard somewhere that Oprah knew about enlightenment, I wouldn't be surprised if the entertainment industry had a sub-culture of crazy artist's who knew about enlightenment. 

[ChimpBrain]

1 hour ago, Jamie Universe said:

Ikr, I heard somewhere that Oprah knew about enlightenment, I wouldn't be surprised if the entertainment industry had a sub-culture of crazy artist's who knew about enlightenment. 

Oprah has (had?) an entire TV show dedicated to spirituality where she interviews people like Eckhart Tolle, adyashanti, etc. It's called super soul Sunday. She's definitely fully aware of the concept of enlightenment. 

[Joseph Maynor]

Great analysis.  You got a nice handle on Spiral Dynamics theory.

Trump seems reddish-orange to me, with a lean towards red, who is pretending to be blue.  You nailed it.

This is more speculative, but I would take a wild ass guess so say that Kim Jong Un is probably squarely at red.  

Here’s an interesting hypothesis for you: when two people are facing-off at red, are they more likely to work out a deal after the peacock bluffing show?  And we saw that show play itself out with Trump and Kim.  The my d*ck is longer than yours dance!  It’s like too guys that don’t really wanna fight each other putting on a show outside of a bar — maybe one guy dramatically takes off his shirt and does a virtual mirror flex.  We’ve all seen that, right.  And their respective friends are all too eager to interfere and prevent any real fight from going down.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/politics/donald-trump-kim-jong-un-rhetoric/index.html

Edited June 13, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Mondsee]

9 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

This is more speculative, but I would take a wild ass guess so say that Kim Jong Un is probably squarely at red.  

The thing is, he is good at acting purely red, he can't govern his country otherwise, but he does find attractive the ideas of development and a flourishing country, maybe because of ego reasons, but he does, and he must sense that is not to be achieved if acting 100% red. Because of this, Trump has real bargaining power with him, he can offer Kim to help him get that. On the other hand, Trump officially cannot act red, but he wishes he could, and is able to take red leaders seriously, not as other leaders who simply have almost denied North Korea as a nation, plus he knows capitalist business can't flourish in a red environment.

9 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Here’s an interesting hypothesis for you: when two people are facing-off at red, are they more likely to work out a deal after the peacock bluffing show?  And we saw that show play itself out with Trump and Kim.  The my d*ck is longer than yours dance!  It’s like too guys that don’t really wanna fight each other putting on a show outside of a bar — maybe one guy dramatically takes off his shirt and does a virtual mirror flex.  We’ve all seen that, right.  And their respective friends are all too eager to interfere and prevent any real fight from going down.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/politics/donald-trump-kim-jong-un-rhetoric/index.html

Correct! IMO Trump and Kim may be both red, but that doesn't mean they're stupid, and they know having an actual conflict or nuclear war is stupid. There can be enemies within all levels, and it'd be interesting analyzing how it would play out in each one. As of red vs. red nowadays, it's exactly what we were seeing: "someone please tell him I have a bigger button, and mine actually works", but then organizing a summit together. It's like a children's fight to death, they're pretending they're actually fighting to death, but they don't intend to actually kill the other, and a few hours later they'll be playing again together.

What's helping here is that Trump and Kim understand each other, they speak the same language, they're both children "fighting to death". On the contrary, if let's say Kim would have fought to death against Bush, he wouldn't have understood that it is kind of a game not to be taken very seriously. Bush probably would have taken it seriously, matters would have escalated, and problems wouldn't have been solved.

[Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Maybe they are both stage Turquoise, playing as stage Red/Orange, playing 100 moves ahead of us to disrupt the elite globalists and spread peace and love across the world

[Arman]

trumps just a puppet

the puppet-master has been hiding in plain view all along

 

 

[AlwaysBeNice]

Trump is cool, definitely narcissistic and greedy man for a large part, but also has a good part, which the left unfortunately and funnily enough can't stand, kind of annoying to see how biased they tend to be in ignoring the positive and highlighting the negative in an ugly way.

Like here, you can see the power and beauty of the man, he can genuinely love people, and Kim's kind of ecstatic about that even, it's cute.

 

 

[Jamie Universe]

20 hours ago, ChimpBrain said:

Oprah has (had?) an entire TV show dedicated to spirituality where she interviews people like Eckhart Tolle, adyashanti, etc. It's called super soul Sunday. She's definitely fully aware of the concept of enlightenment. 

O shit that's pretty cool

[Key Elements]

Ok...They're still friends. Here is his friend commenting on him and the economy: