Enquirer

Is No-self just another delusion?

43 posts in this topic

18 hours ago, Enquirer said:

I've listened to many people online who claim to be enlightened and to have achieved the goal of no-self.

@Enquirer Either you've been listening to the wrong people or your listening in the wrong way. When enlightenment happens there is no one who becomes enlightened. Consciousness awakens, not somebody. Goals of achieving no-self is illusion and just more bolstering self. LIsten to what Adyashanti has to say here @17:00 about no-self. Give it just 5 minutes. It's really good stuff!

 

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2 hours ago, Anna1 said:

Everything you see, hear, smell, taste, touch, think and feel is an illusion. Negate it all. You can only truly know what you are, by knowing what your not. You can only be it, that's it, but you will not get out of the illusion. Trying to get out is madness.

I'm quoting my own post to clarify what I mean, hopefully, lol

Everything is illusion/dreaming, except what you really are, awareness/presence. To recognize what you are, you need to negate (neti-neti) or see through, what you've thought was real (phenomena), then you realize you've always been it, awareness. But, the dreaming/illusion/phenomena, although seen through, "persists", meaning, thoughts/feelings/sensations/sucky situations/illness, etc ....continue to be experienced (by no-one...lol).  In that sense, there is no getting out of the dream/illusion, although you know it's not real.

Peace.

Edited by Anna1
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Everything you see, hear, smell, taste, touch, think, and feel is real, you are not imagining it. Just from higher levels of consciousness the physical nature of reality disappears, but from our vibration reality is physical. We are not dreaming, it's just that there is more to reality we can't see due to our deepest subconscious beliefs which cause our nervous systems to make anything "higher vibrational" invisible :) Isn't that amazing?


Feel your hearts embrace of this moment of existence, and your love will awaken in everything you perceive ❤️ 

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1 minute ago, Solace said:

Everything you see, hear, smell, taste, touch, think, and feel is real, you are not imagining it. Just from higher levels of consciousness the physical nature of reality disappears, but from our vibration reality is physical. We are not dreaming, it's just that there is more to reality

It's not "ultimately" real. However, if your dream house catches on dream fire, you definitely want to go get some dream water! xD

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1 hour ago, Anna1 said:

It's not "ultimately" real. However, if your dream house catches on dream fire, you definitely want to go get some dream water! xD

It is your own perception of reality. You have sensors acting as input machines and your brain filters it. The dream house catching on fire is just part of reality and nobody is telling you to get the water. Your perception is that the house is valuable and so you do it. Your perception is also telling your its a dream.

Something is only real because we labelled it as real.  So can we ever trust ourselves? Can we ever remove our perception of reality or just be aware of it?

Life is neutral.


You're not human, you're the universe

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40 minutes ago, Empty said:

who asked this question? 

 Although the question has seemingly appeared within conciousness and then has been written down, communicated by the body/mind. There is no-self doing it, there is no doer.  There is apparent identification happening with an appearance (phenomena) and that creates a belief that the dream is real and happening to an illusory "me".

Edited by Anna1
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@B_Naz Actually, it doesn't matter if someone gets water for the house fire or toasts marshmellows. The point was that although this is "ultimately" a dream/illusion there are still physical laws and cause/effect "seemingly" at play. 

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Is No-self just another delusion?

 

We would have to ask ourselves what causes this delusion? 

Because until “NO-SELF” becomes an actuality it is still self “dualistic in nature” 

 

Question 1#

What causes delusion?? 

Edited by Faceless

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29 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

@B_Naz Actually, it doesn't matter if someone gets water for the house fire or toasts marshmellows. The point was that although this is "ultimately" a dream/illusion there are still physical laws and cause/effect "seemingly" at play. 

Sorry, I wasn't trying to make fun of your example but trying to you use your example to explain my reasoning :P But you are right in saying that they are illusions, but you can't say they are not "real" because there is clearly some phenomenon happening. 


You're not human, you're the universe

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Question 2#

And if one claimed to have ended this self, by what means did they do so? 

 

These questions would have to be answered. 

 

What do you guys think:)

 

Edited by Faceless

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2 minutes ago, Faceless said:

And if one claimed to have ended this self, by what means did they do so? 

I think ending one's self is just ending the perception that we think we have of reality, because we will truly never know reality. So is enlightenment even a thing? Or are we kidding ourselves?


You're not human, you're the universe

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1 minute ago, B_Naz said:

I think ending one's self is just ending the perception that we think we have of reality, because we will truly never know reality. So is enlightenment even a thing? Or are we kidding ourselves?

The way your going about this will never bring about clarity for yourself.

That’s not what I’m asking....Do you know what causes delusion?? 

You have witnessed people doing things to attain enlightenment/or truth right?  

All the tricks that you have seen/observed/read about. 

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And what do you mean by reality?? 

Reality is the real and the unreal. 

We shouldn’t use reality for that which is beyond the conditioned mind either. Because you can not know that which is independent of mind. Mind implies things. 

So perhaps we could use TRUTH “unconditioned” in place of reality. 

Reality is everything we think about or reflect upon....Reality consist of actuality, fact, real, unreal, correct, and incorrect but never TRUTH. 

This way there can be a clear distinction between TRUTH “independent of thought “conditions” and reality “mutually dependent of conditions” 

THIS IS JUST A MUCH MORE EFFICIENT WAY TO DISCUSS SUCH A TOPIC. 

Edited by Faceless

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12 minutes ago, B_Naz said:

Sorry, I wasn't trying to make fun of your example but trying to you use your example to explain my reasoning :P But you are right in saying that they are illusions, but you can't say they are not "real" because there is clearly some phenomenon happening. 

Not a problem! :)
Communicating on forums is difficult, imo. Anyways, I would say the phenomenal world is "apparently" real. That's why I would get some dream water, for my dream house fire ;)

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Reality is infinite, meaning it contains all paradoxical contexts. It also means our thoughts are included. Reality is one unification of everything. By removing thoughts, you're see a reality without thoughts. What does this mean though? Do you know how fucking significant this is? There is no reflection upon us, a reflection means a thought. Can we even become aware of the no-thought effect because that awareness is a thought. 

A reality without thoughts is a reality that is nothing? But a reality that is nothing is an assumption that is nothing. And that assumption is also an assumption times infinitely amount of times.

Our minds are attaching things to this reality continuously , so when we remove the thoughts, reality just doesn't mean shit because the meaning and everything is just a thought. Reality is just there. "There", another attachment. I don't know, this is something I need to explore even further and I should probably stop posting on the meditation forums because I'm talking out of my ass :P

LETS GO OUT AND SEARCH FOR IT (well, I need to at least)


You're not human, you're the universe

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3 minutes ago, B_Naz said:

I need to explore even further and I should probably stop posting on the meditation forums because I'm talking out of my ass :P

Lmao! 

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10 hours ago, B_Naz said:

Reality is infinite, meaning it contains all paradoxical contexts. It also means our thoughts are included. Reality is one unification of everything. By removing thoughts, you're see a reality without thoughts. What does this mean though? Do you know how fucking significant this is? There is no reflection upon us, a reflection means a thought. Can we even become aware of the no-thought effect because that awareness is a thought. 

A reality without thoughts is a reality that is nothing? But a reality that is nothing is an assumption that is nothing. And that assumption is also an assumption times infinitely amount of times.

Our minds are attaching things to this reality continuously , so when we remove the thoughts, reality just doesn't mean shit because the meaning and everything is just a thought. Reality is just there. "There", another attachment. I don't know, this is something I need to explore even further and I should probably stop posting on the meditation forums because I'm talking out of my ass :P

LETS GO OUT AND SEARCH FOR IT (well, I need to at least)

It's ok. 

 

I think you have gone into the theory/conceptualization a bit. 

I go into this more in non conceptual way. We can’t know reality “truth”. So we simply try and deal with everything in the conditioned mind, which is reality, the way I explained reality above. 

 

But have you gone into the nature of self/thought/experience in yourself personally. 

 

Until you do this your investigation will remain dualistic. And that will never bring about a cessation of thought.

 

 You can not answer those questions about consciousness empty of things, because that is not a fact for yourself. If your conciousness is full of things then it only knows things. It’s not about the accumulation of things “concepts/theory’s/ideas, to get to NO-THING. It’s about ending things in yourself actually. Which means the ending of the authority of experience. To not carry experience and place it upon “new experiencing’s” that’s where the movement of thought gets fed its energy. 

 

 

If you understand the whole nature of self/thought/experience you might be able to “actually” empty the contents and slow/end the movement of things in consciousness. 

So perhaps you will be able to come at this  free of dualistic/divisive/limitation of experience. Because any attempt to understand No-thing with the movement/content of things “experience” is futile. 

 

The movement of thought can end, but one must understand totally self/thought/experience. If we do not understand this movement of the experiencer very deeply then the movement of thought/self will never cease. 

 

To understand oneself is essential. 

 

So explore the nature of thought/self/experience..This is something that one will do, well until one is no more. This is an art. 

 

Edited by Faceless

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Thanks for so many replies. If I'm going to boil them down to their essence then I think most of you are saying that I should just find out for myself if possible. I agree actually. Still I have another question regarding this and that is will I lose awareness as a no self? ie just be a mindless automaton. I ask this because I associate self with awareness primarily rather than the ongoing contents of consciousness. I certainly can't see self anywhere else. In this regard would an artificial intelligence be a perfect or a flawed noself entity?

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