Compassion and support - Huge sticking point

[billiesimon]

The area of solid relationships is my biggest sticking point. I have tried the warmer approach to intimacy and I've been fucked over, I've tried the cold version, and same results.

How can I have an intimate and truly reciprocal affection with a woman in a relationship?

I tend to show affection, help her out, be both a source of motivation and compassion.

But they don't do this for me, they just feel entitled to get it from me and they feel bothered when I ask for compassion if I feel down or motivation when I feel demotivated.

Is being an ice cold detached winner the only way to keep a girl? Of course starting from a basic of being a self actualizing guy with passions.

Is it possible to ask and get emotional and motivational support from her in uncertain times of your life? or is the woman always leeching off of you?

[Frylock]

I don't get it. What are you needing from women that you can't already give yourself? If you can't have compassion and love for yourself, then you can't expect to share it with others and also be able to get it in return.

[billiesimon]

1 hour ago, Frylock said:

I don't get it. What are you needing from women that you can't already give yourself? If you can't have compassion and love for yourself, then you can't expect to share it with others and also be able to get it in return.

What can't you understand?

I already give compassion and support. Isn't it normal to get it back if you're a good partner?

Why are you excusing leeching behaviour?

A relationship is made of reciprocal sinergy, not a one way slave-master condition.

Edited April 27, 2018 by billiesimon

[Frylock]

You don't have compassion and support for yourself. You can't expect it from others if you don't have it for yourself.

I think there's something skewed in how you're going about "giving compassion". This could mean anything. Are you being needy and overbearing? What exactly are you doing, and expecting in return?

Being ice cold and detached is a reaction. Observe your behavior and respond and calibrate accordingly before reacting on negative emotions.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Frylock

[YaNanNallari]

She's not de way. Find someone who you can keep with good stuff, not bad stuff.

[billiesimon]

6 hours ago, Frylock said:

You don't have compassion and support for yourself. You can't expect it from others if you don't have it for yourself.

I think there's something skewed in how you're going about "giving compassion". This could mean anything. Are you being needy and overbearing? What exactly are you doing, and expecting in return?

Being ice cold and detached is a reaction. Observe your behavior and respond and calibrate accordingly before reacting on negative emotions.

I get it that I also have to cultivate compassion for myself, but I don't understand what it has to do with partners being compassionate for me.

If I'm dating a person I want to care for them and help them, understand their emotions and give them motivation to be happy in life. Independently from their own level of self compassion. 

It's not that i EXPECT it from them... but I think that it should be pretty normal to receive compassion and understanding from a partner, especially if youre supportive with them.

I don't understand why should they remain indifferent towards me.

[aurum]

13 hours ago, billiesimon said:

I tend to show affection, help her out, be both a source of motivation and compassion.

But they don't do this for me, they just feel entitled to get it from me and they feel bothered when I ask for compassion if I feel down or motivation when I feel demotivated.

This is a very common problem for men.

Here's the deal. Any girl you're going to try to get into a relationship with, she has to first perceive you as an "alpha male" type guy, i.e fun, dominant and fucks lots of girls.

if she doesn't see you that way, EVERYTHING YOU DO will be filtered through her perception of "this guy is a loser". That's a battle you will not win.

She will not care that you held the door for her. She will not care that you remembered her birthday and bought her an expensive gift. She will not even care that you raised kids together. And she sure as hell is not going to be your emotional support.

Conversely, when she perceives you as that alpha male kind of guy and the filter is switched to "this guy is awesome", everything you do is essentially gold. You're treated like a king.

I am oversimplifying things, but that's the general gist of how it works.

Guys have a really hard time swallowing the truth of this. They want what they're doing to be appreciated and for reality to fit their conditioned beliefs. And then they just get destroyed time and time again and don't understand why.

[billiesimon]

2 hours ago, aurum said:

This is a very common problem for men.

Here's the deal. Any girl you're going to try to get into a relationship with, she has to first perceive you as an "alpha male" type guy, i.e fun, dominant and fucks lots of girls.

if she doesn't see you that way, EVERYTHING YOU DO will be filtered through her perception of "this guy is a loser". That's a battle you will not win.

She will not care that you held the door for her. She will not care that you remembered her birthday and bought her an expensive gift. She will not even care that you raised kids together. And she sure as hell is not going to be your emotional support.

Conversely, when she perceives you as that alpha male kind of guy and the filter is switched to "this guy is awesome", everything you do is essentially gold. You're treated like a king.

I am oversimplifying things, but that's the general gist of how it works.

Guys have a really hard time swallowing the truth of this. They want what they're doing to be appreciated and for reality to fit their conditioned beliefs. And then they just get destroyed time and time again and don't understand why.

Best response, thanks man!!

Yes, I've noticed this stuff recently because I'm studying pickup and starting out with self actualization. I've discovered that being very attractive and charismatic is the baseline.

But here's the tricky question: if you are very attractive for her, and she likes you a lot, is it ok to give her support and affection?
And will she give you affection and emotional support back? Again, I mean in a relationship where she is very attracted to you and you are affectionate, not ice cold.

I don't have much experience, only 2 relationships, pardon.

[Frylock]

19 hours ago, billiesimon said:

I get it that I also have to cultivate compassion for myself, but I don't understand what it has to do with partners being compassionate for me.

If I'm dating a person I want to care for them and help them, understand their emotions and give them motivation to be happy in life. Independently from their own level of self compassion. 

It's not that i EXPECT it from them... but I think that it should be pretty normal to receive compassion and understanding from a partner, especially if youre supportive with them.

I don't understand why should they remain indifferent towards me.

You're still not explaining what type of behaviors you're actually doing.

Don't be a cold fish. That's a reaction, and not the way to go. But don't be needy and overbearing, and give your loyalty before anyone has done anything to really earn it.

[Paulus Amadeus]

10 hours ago, billiesimon said:

Best response, thanks man!!

Yes, I've noticed this stuff recently because I'm studying pickup and starting out with self actualization. I've discovered that being very attractive and charismatic is the baseline.

But here's the tricky question: if you are very attractive for her, and she likes you a lot, is it ok to give her support and affection?
And will she give you affection and emotional support back? Again, I mean in a relationship where she is very attracted to you and you are affectionate, not ice cold.

I don't have much experience, only 2 relationships, pardon.

Dude to have the relationship you have to have these two things in place:

 

1. Be a sexy, interesting, loving and charming dude (and be an 'alfa male' etc etc etc)

2. Find a loving, sweet girl who likes you for you

Most girls are selfish just like most people are selfish. They are not in a point in their self-development where they can care for anybody else then themselves. If you yourself are also in this camp than you have no chance of finding a girl who is actually capable of loving. 

There are definitely some girls out there who have what you want. But most girls don't. No matter how alfa you get. These girls might suck you dick but they will never love you. Cause they only care about themselves. So you got to start developing an intuition for seeing which girls are capable of loving and which aren't. And then if you are lucky in the future you will find yourself in some beautiful relationship.

 

You will have to be capable of truly loving too though, which you probably aren't. These girls are in high demand because people can sense their loving and sweet nature. So you really need to be a pretty awesome and loving guy to get one of these. 

 

 

[billiesimon]

21 hours ago, Frylock said:

You're still not explaining what type of behaviors you're actually doing.

Don't be a cold fish. That's a reaction, and not the way to go. But don't be needy and overbearing, and give your loyalty before anyone has done anything to really earn it.

My usual behaviour is listening to her problems (I used to, since I'm single now), giving her acceptance for her faults, giving advice, and helping out when she needed it. I have a general attitude of being affectionate and undestanding, I sometimes spent an entire hour listening to her feelings of being lonely or about a fight with her friends. Other behaviours of mine are being almost always ready to help her out, and I generally like to hug a lot.

The part that pisses me off is the fact that they do not reciprocate my genuine effort to be undestanding and present.

[billiesimon]

21 hours ago, Paulus Amadeus said:

Dude to have the relationship you have to have these two things in place:

 

1. Be a sexy, interesting, loving and charming dude (and be an 'alfa male' etc etc etc)

2. Find a loving, sweet girl who likes you for you

Most girls are selfish just like most people are selfish. They are not in a point in their self-development where they can care for anybody else then themselves. If you yourself are also in this camp than you have no chance of finding a girl who is actually capable of loving. 

There are definitely some girls out there who have what you want. But most girls don't. No matter how alfa you get. These girls might suck you dick but they will never love you. Cause they only care about themselves. So you got to start developing an intuition for seeing which girls are capable of loving and which aren't. And then if you are lucky in the future you will find yourself in some beautiful relationship.

 

You will have to be capable of truly loving too though, which you probably aren't. These girls are in high demand because people can sense their loving and sweet nature. So you really need to be a pretty awesome and loving guy to get one of these. 

 

 

Thanks dude.

Are they so rare that it's almost impossibile to find them?

Yes, I'm working on myself and I'm willing to improve. But is it possible for a normal guy like me to find them?

[Elisabeth]

I have two ideas, which might or might not apply

1) Look at the filters you use at the beginning of the relationship. Maybe you choose a certain type of girls who are not ready to be loving in a relationship yet. Maybe you use offering that support as your main way to approach girls, so that you pull girls towards yourself who are after that support mainly.

2) As suggested, you might have a manipulation pattern going on where you offer that support to get support yourself. It's a very common and very ineffective pattern.

See, offering support in itself DOES NOT make you unattractive. What does, is offering support with a string attached. What does, is also the inability to be direct about what you want. You're writing very well that love, support, affection need to be mutual in the relationship, yet it's also the case that expecting reciprocity might not be the best way to go about it.

I'm adding two Teal Swan videos, I don't know if they hit your core issue, but I think in some ways they apply; try it, maybe you'll collect little nuggets from her videos.

 

 

[Nahm]

@billiesimon I’d self inquire to the root of your needing compassion and motivation. Uncover it. You already have it in abundance. Resistant thought of self is probably the culprit. Need love, or give love. Is there really an inbetween? Smile, and the world smiles with you, cry and you cry alone. Abe Hicks might be worth a listen. The vibration model shines in relationship projection.

[aurum]

On 4/28/2018 at 6:41 AM, billiesimon said:

But here's the tricky question: if you are very attractive for her, and she likes you a lot, is it ok to give her support and affection?
And will she give you affection and emotional support back? Again, I mean in a relationship where she is very attracted to you and you are affectionate, not ice cold.

Yes it's okay.

It's not that a certain amount of support and affection aren't important in relationships. They're extremely important. But they have to be coming from the right place, which is what I mentioned in the previous comment.

[billiesimon]

4 hours ago, aurum said:

Yes it's okay.

It's not that a certain amount of support and affection aren't important in relationships. They're extremely important. But they have to be coming from the right place, which is what I mentioned in the previous comment.

Thanks man! It's important to me to give something to my partner in a relationship. In my previuous one this aspect was very disfunctional and now I need to work on my game and on my emotional fitness.

But will she give you the support back if she's in the healthy relationship you describe?