Ether

Why Doesnt God Exist?

169 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, Ether said:

I see that nobody has the answers.

Why do you need other people's answers?
 


Bearing with the conditioned in gentleness, fording the river with resolution, not neglecting what is distant, not regarding one's companions; thus one may manage to walk in the middle. H11L2

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4 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Why do you need other people's answers?
 

I want to know the truth.

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Just now, Ether said:

I want to know the truth.

How would you know that another person's answers are the truth?
Words are symbolic. They refer to something that they are not.
How would you know that your understanding of my words is the same as my understanding of my words?


Bearing with the conditioned in gentleness, fording the river with resolution, not neglecting what is distant, not regarding one's companions; thus one may manage to walk in the middle. H11L2

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10 minutes ago, tsuki said:

How would you know that another person's answers are the truth?
Words are symbolic. They refer to something that they are not.
How would you know that your understanding of my words is the same as my understanding of my words?

Id have to search it for myself. But its a guide. A map is a guide to the exit of a maze. 

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Ether said:

Quote

I could say: WE ARE LIVING IN THE MATRIX!

And I would know you don't know what to do in the matrix (much less with it).

The matrix is created and you are not. You probably think that would be a limitation.

That makes sense though, because you think you exist.

You are full of endless notions, Ether, but you do not grasp the point of experiencing knowledge.

 

 

ed note: add (much less with it) in 1st line

 

Edited by deci belle

Nana i ke kumu  Ka imi loa

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10 minutes ago, Ether said:

A map is a guide to the exit of a maze. 

Only if you're certain that you know how to read. Are you?


Bearing with the conditioned in gentleness, fording the river with resolution, not neglecting what is distant, not regarding one's companions; thus one may manage to walk in the middle. H11L2

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4 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Only if you're certain that you know how to read. Are you?

I dont know, I just read your post.

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@deci belle Yes, you did gave me all the information I wanted. You proved God existed, so well. Sike

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13 minutes ago, Ether said:

I dont know, I just read your post.

Well then, read on.
You found yourself in a maze. You are trying to get out, looking for an exit.
The maze has clues. Many of them mention God. You know that God must be another clue, so you try to solve it and know the Truth.
The secret to the maze is that 'exit' you seek is yet another clue! Solving riddles is just SO FUN!

There is no exit. The maze is all there is. Clues are things that keep you occupied while you wander it.
The funny thing is that you are the one that plant them! You are the thing that makes the maze a perfect contraption.
You know EXACTLY what clue to place so that you find it interesting. Irresistible.

Go ahead, chase your own tail. It's fun.
There were many answers in this thread. Read them carefully to see the other people's mazes.


Bearing with the conditioned in gentleness, fording the river with resolution, not neglecting what is distant, not regarding one's companions; thus one may manage to walk in the middle. H11L2

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30 minutes ago, tsuki said:

There is no exit. The maze is all there is. Clues are things that keep you occupied while you wander it.

@Ether A map is yet another clue.
How do you know that the map is correct unless you walk it?
When you walk it and it proves to be incorrect - how do you know that you didn't take a wrong turn?
How many walks does it take it for you to get pissed at it and find yourself a new map?
How many pissing off does it take you to decide that your temper is too short for this maze?

There is no exit. The only exit you can get is to appreciate the gruesome beauty of this maze.
Sit down and be content with it.
We call it meditation.

Did I mention the Minotaur?

Edited by tsuki

Bearing with the conditioned in gentleness, fording the river with resolution, not neglecting what is distant, not regarding one's companions; thus one may manage to walk in the middle. H11L2

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Where is the truth and how could one look for the ultimate truth? 

Simply, the truth is not out there.  The truth arises in you.  You are the truth.  You create truths and not someone else out there.  Literally, it is difficult for one to see the truth because one’s eyes couldn’t see one’s own eyes.  For instance, both the duck and the cow are created truths.  Precisely, this kind of truth is also known as conventional truth i.e. a subjective-cum-relative truth.  This means the truth orientation is dependent on the observer (i.e. the subject’s mind) to provide the description, definition, recognition, valuation, etc. on the other side of the object or matter.  And the truth conclusion varies among different observers or minds.

In another instance, if you were to show an I-phone to a caveman, he would describe it as merely a useless hard object.  And if you were to show it to let’s say, an ant, it becomes a gigantic heavy object.  Likewise, you can be named as a human, a son, a father, a preacher, a student, a Caucasian, an American, a thin man, an old man, a buyer, a supplier, a stranger, etc. concurrently.  At the end of the day, the observer (be it your own self or another third party) would provide the definition or recognition based on their respective perception on the same referred object or matter.  Once again, one does not need to be served with the truth because it is not out there.  For a person who believes in the existence of God as creator and ruler of the world or universe, every existence in the cosmos would rise and fall within the kingdom of God.  This means all beings or things are the essential constituents of God and therefore, as humans, we can also be known as namesake gods.   

In order to seek for the ultimate truth, it is imperative for one to abandon the stereotyping mindset that is associated with the ‘-ism’ or ‘-ology’ for it is a system of pre-conditioning or pre-disposition (a.k.a. a ‘locked-in’ mentality).   Generally, liberation is the only right potion to the ultimate truth discovery and with the inculcation of right determination, the ultimate truth can be discovered by anyone right here, right now.  This would mean observations on all the phenomena would need to be based on unbiased grounds i.e. on neutral and upright positions.  Enlightenment is about seeing and knowing it all by our mind consciousness i.e. seeing and knowing into the true nature and its orientation all the time. 

As a start, one would realise that Mother Nature is the pinnacle of all the dependent and non-dependent circumstances in the cosmos.  It is considered as the supreme state of all things with the attributes of emptiness.  Emptiness of phenomena exists in the way it appears in direct perception and without the need to reference of any other entity.  It is completely defined by its own nature.  In other words, emptiness of phenomena is an inherent existence that is uncaused.  It is indestructible and eternal.   It is unchanging when viewed externally and cannot undergo any internal changes of state.   It has no constituent parts and nothing can be thrown out or removed from it.  Nothing can be added to it and no change in the external conditions can affect it. 

For a theist, this phenomenon is also known as One Supreme Being or God.  In other words, all things or matters would rise and fall within the Mother Nature or so-called the One Supreme Being or God.  This is the deepest fact about things and nothing can be recognised beyond its boundary.  Without Mother Nature, nothing would ever exist - no things or happenings would arise.  However, on another perspective, emptiness is the key attribute of all things or matters that ain’t stop for nothing and always in motion, just like the saying goes, ‘There is another mountain higher than this one, always!’  In other words, because of emptiness, all things or matters would rise and fall in the continuum of eternity.  Therefore, we could classify that emptiness is a universal quality that is inherent existing and dependent arising concurrently. 

As a conclusion, seeing the truth can be direct and simple.  Ultimately, one just needs a right determination to be enlightened on all the surrounding phenomena.  For a reference, every phenomenal existence is the product of the proper combination of causes and conditions.  Each of the causes would need other causes to be present together with their respective conditions.  As humans, we are also subject to cause and condition all the time.  In fact, we are basically the end result of a certain unique frequency pattern of consciousness – a wave of collated high and low vibrations that subsequently bring forth a conflation of mind and body.  Our mind and physical body are merely an interim containment of certain blueprint of vibrational frequencies that fluctuates according to the influence of multiple causes and conditions.  And it is imperative for one to initiate with wise approach to comprehend this truth via enlightenment.

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is there a big old dude in the sky? No. 

Is there a collective consciousness that has no origin? look in the mirror. you are part of it. that is god. 


 

 

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God in Abrahamic religions is not ultimately about having awakening to oneness, God in Abrahamic religions is about believing in transcendent God, its about conscious act of faith.

So one the one hand: there is monotheism of Abrahamic traditions which is based on revelations from prophets

And on the other hand: oneness, infinity, void, absolute, all that is what we can call as true/absolute nature/substance of reality

Humanity have known and experienced this things (oneness) long time ago, Platonism is based on that, Hinduism is based on that, Buddhism is based on that, you ask whats not based on that, everything, even polytheistic, shamanistic traditions had this awakenings to the core of reality.

However, people and spirituality across the world did not exactly understand: well, all is one, now what precisely to do with this amazing oneness? Whats the point? Reach ultra-joyful state of being, have siddhis, do magic, have out of body, go to spend some lifetimes in heavenly dimensions, live to the full on the earth, quite all whatsoever and annihilate into nirvana? What exactly to do? The 'burden' of self-awareness were always too much to carry on, this burden asks questions about future even if you are enlightened guru who is 'joyful'. Being joyful didn't help people to drop hunger for meaning, hunger for something which is not what is, hunger for at least some importance. One could say that strive for such things coming from ego, however experience of enlightened sages in history proves that even when ego is gone, question for meaning is still there, ability to have faith in something beyond what is - is still there. Some subtle sense of restlessness still bothered greatest sages of all.

Some like Ancient Greeks have adopted 'life's good approach' or hedonistic treadmill, it is what we call polytheism. Just have joy, love, live, and philosophise like Platon. However, happiness never lasts forever because you will die, and be maybe reborn again and suffer again. On some point joyfulness stopped to satisfy human beings. Didn't seem enough.

Some like Hindus and Buddha, were sceptic about limited possibillities of hedonism, they didn't feel quite right about having endless pleasure on earth or in heavenly dimensions without any meaning whatsoever, especially given that joy for them was illusiory anyways, especially given that you reincarnate and must suffer again until you realize truth again and so on forever, so they decided to adopt 'quitting everything' approach having decided that life is pointless suffering samsara, quitting also were via escape into the nirvanic ecstatic state, being in the empty silence of ananda. Buddha was very much about that.

But this escape too couldn't satisfy majority, whats the point of coming here if we are just to vanish into nirvana? Something put us here so we just leave? Didn't seem enough.

If some advanced beings in Greece and in India at least had some strategy of dealing with life or had 'earthly wisdom', but so-called unspiritual part of humanity were completely lost in the sufferings and passions of this world, if you look on the history of humanity of last 10,000 years, its just never-ending battles for survival and physical suffering, tragedy after tragedy, burden of having self-awareness.

However, here comes the mysterious part of God. You see oneness/absolute/infinity is not the mystery coz it is what is, it is what can be realised, it is what were realised by many people before, it is absolute truth. Hence its not the mystery, its obvious.

But for human-beings it was never enough really, what was the point of the whole deal they asked themselves, if nothing ever changes under the sun? What is the truth within the absolute truth? Whats right in the truth? For millenniums people only had hope that maybe something will ever change, they believed that maybe something will change in this undifferentiated bowl of oneness jungle.

Also, if its oneness, how does that explains duality within oneness? Why there is opposition? Why there is individual awareness being within this moment of here and now? If awareness is one, why it has individualised aspect present within human-beings?

Thats when we come to the Abrahamic prophets, and their mission. These prophets are messengers of so-called 'the good news'. The good news is coming from that very mystery of 'why anything? why we are here asking about meaning in this bowl of oneness?'

Message tells that yes, there is something in the future, God (or Mystery within Absolute oneness) gives you promise of this and that, but there's no proof for that, no rational understanding, you can only believe in that, have faith in the message, have faith in that which is not what is (God), not because I have proof, but because your essence (spirit) within your heart and your mind comes to the conscious conclusion that there is something true in this message that resonates within your heart and your mind. Your spirit smells truth. And you left to make leap of faith into the impossible thing, leap of faith is act of conscious will. To believe into impossible thing (God is whats impossible to be) which is silently sparkling within your heart ever since you were kid. And faith makes you to live accordingly to the message (message is the map for those who thinks for themselves). Not because that has any ground in the being (God here is the opposite of being), but because there is faith in something, and you yourself don't quite understand why believing in something even happens.

What is the promise? Kingdom of God, New heaven, New earth after last judgement (not old infantile heavenly dimensions which never satisfied ancient people but mature heaven with things to do) . But however, this is interesting thing: its not really the heaven that motivates people, its rather that this promised thing is whats real within the dream world. There is one tiny real thing in between truth of absolute oneness. And this real thing has so many 'grande' things within: like faith, will, fight (holy war), 'God's plan', greatness, sacrifice, meaning, virtue. Things that do not really exist in the dream world, yet the revelations triggers the very hidden ability of human beings to actualise virtual virtues. To make dreams come true. To make impossible and non-existent to be. The dream world is simulacra and simulation, or copy, enlightenment makes you to realise that its the dream and you come to conclusion that the dream is the only reality. However, this what make people to be dissastisfied, they wanted real reality, not reality = dream. They wanted something from the source, something free from lies, otherwise enlightenment just make you to be one truthful dude living among lies, didn't make sense to people. People wanted real. This real is what is holy or divine in the Abrahamic sense. Thats why Holy Spirit, not just any spirit.

Now the question, is that for real? Or do people just trying to feel important in the meaningless samsara? Well, the answer is figure out for yourself, you were given mind to think about this very thing. Revelations are just like a map that you find in the desert to finish the journey. Its not about blind belief, nope, faith in the benevolent mystery plays role of the last key of deconstruction of reality.

Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad.

Gospels, Quran.

God in Abrahamic traditions is that very mystery of whats beyond 'what is'? Mystery of why do we have ability to believe if there is nothing to believe in within the meaningless samsara of oneness, why do we have ability to give meaning to something if all is meaningless?

God is the very origin of meaning, the very origin of cosmic drama played out among cartoon characters made from matter.

Logos = meaning/word/concept. In the beginning there was Logos, and Logos was with God, and Logos was God.

'In the beginning, God taught Adam to name animals (to give meanings to things)'

In the end of the day, nothing in this world, neither body nor mind nor external world want meaning or want to believe in anything, only tiny divine spark within you wants it because its very job is all about meaning, believing and actualising potential of believing. Not intelelctual belief in anything, but belief of divine spark in the very essence of divine spark.

God in Abrahamic sense is the mystery, it is transcendent = that which is not anything of this world, its not absolute oneness but that which is not.

It can't be known and realised, you can establish 'connection' with its spirit here, you can feel its presence in your life, you can experience awakenings to the spirit, but overall on the grand scheme of things (beyond your death) you only can have faith in it, of course not the blind faith but conscious faith, faith is the act of intellectual will. And holy revelatons are not about entering organised cult, no, scriptures are maps in the dessert of unknown, maps are for people to read consciously and through heart, for people to understand and to realise truth resonance within the scripture (divine spirit within you is this discernment mechanism of true and false).

Probably the biggest thing to think about is not god, but faith and believing.Why there is faith, why to believe in impossible God? If there is ability to believe in impossible transcendent God, then there must be a reason for this ability to exist in the first place? Don't ask so much of whats the meaning instead ask why do you have urge for meaning? Just like there is a reason for eyes - to see, and for ears - to hear. This question is worth to ask yourself.

This is indeed the matrix. if you remember, in the beginning of the movie: Trinity (God in Chrstianity) were first one who appeared, she was hacking the matrix, trying to contact 'the one' and in the end we see that the godhead or deus ex machina or boss of machines was the one who created the matrix, one who put humans into the matrix, and he was the one who made humans to escape the matrix through creating program 'the one'. The one is your spirit, individualised awareness.

PS. Think about nonduality and enlightenment as the high school of spirituality, and about Gospels and Quran and Abrahamic scriptures as the university of spirituality.

Edited by Monkey-man

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@Monkey-man Yes but if the architect created everything, who created him? hahahaha.

Maybe i should stop trying to know everything hahaha

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2 minutes ago, Ether said:

Maybe i should stop trying to know everything hahaha

Maybe investigate the mechanism used in investigating?

 

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@Ether Architect is the program within the Matrix as far as I remember, but he is not the Deus ex machina, the godhead of machines. The godhead of machines created architect so architect will create the matrix, if I remember correctly. So architect is like demiurge, lucifer, or creator of physical reality. But he is not the personification of Abrahamic God.

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4 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Maybe investigate the mechanism used in investigating?

 

What do you mean?

2 minutes ago, Monkey-man said:

@Ether Architect is the program within the Matrix as far as I remember, but he is not the Deus ex machina, the godhead of machines. The godhead of machines created architect so architect will create the matrix, if I remember correctly. So architect is like demiurge, lucifer, or creator of physical reality. But he is not the personification of Abrahamic God.

Who is the godhead of machines»

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It is so pity when I see how people lose their time on pointless questions. :( 

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