Does the universe exist independent of our mind?

[Faceless]

In order to embody the action of non duality experience determined by the ‘knower’ which is the ‘known’ perception through the movement of duality itself would have to cease. 

Good question might be, unless this happens can there be this non duality or harmony with the whole/infinite? 

 

[Faceless]

16 minutes ago, Dino D said:

forget non duality, biology= you only percive or experience the filtered version of reality witch we can call perception... when you see a stool, light comes trought you eyes, it gots proccesed in your brain and reproducet to your counciousness as a vision/photo of a stool, who know how a stool really looks, or how it looks trought eyes of other beings, what vaves of light exist that you dont see/percive and so on... so you never ever experience anything other then your perception...

now lets include non duality- In fact when i said perception i ment direct experience, words and terminology are here to show the way, on their own in the relative linguistic meaning, they can mean different things, what i wanted to say is that you only experience direct experience (your own perception), direct experience is a better therm because is a step closer to truth, perception is colored, its subjective its like that like this, you can atribute many properties to what you percive-big smal, red blue, intense weak, loud, and so on... when you inqury hard in whatever youre perciving, when you trully look what it is, what your direct experinece is and what is it made from, who is experiencing and so on... you get from direct perception, to direct experience of what really is-the truth... 

also because my english isnt good, its double hard for me to express myself clearly...

English is fine ?

better than my English and that’s the only language I know

Edited March 20, 2018 by Faceless

[Dino D]

wrong post, edited, sorry

Edited March 20, 2018 by Dino D
wrong post

[abrakamowse]

The mind is inside the universe and the universe is also inside the mind.

As Leo said, it's a Strange Loop.

[Truth Addict]

@Deep

1) does that matter?

2) does that matter?

3) does that matter?

To really answer your questions, you need to stop assuming things you don't really know.

For example what is existence? What is the "mind"? And so on...

[Leo Gura]

Universe/mind is a duality.

The ultimate Truth is nondual. You cannot grasp nonduality via dualistic distinctions. You can try, but all you will get is paradox and strange loops due to the self-reference problem.

You are the universe trying to ask itself, "What is the universe?" If you don't know, who else can tell you but yourself?

[dorg]

1 hour ago, Dino D said:

now lets include non duality- In fact when i said perception i ment direct experience, words and terminology are here to show the way, on their own in the relative linguistic meaning, they can mean different things, what i wanted to say is that you only experience direct experience (your own perception), direct experience is a better therm because is a step closer to truth, perception is colored, its subjective its like that like this, you can atribute many properties to what you percive-big smal, red blue, intense weak, loud, and so on... when you inqury hard in whatever youre perciving, when you trully look what it is, what your direct experinece is and what is it made from, who is experiencing and so on... you get from direct perception, to direct experience of what really is-the truth... 

@Dino D Thank you for this equivalence of perception and direct experience.

[Deep]

4 hours ago, Faceless said:

Experience is a movement of thought which implies that it cannot be direct at all. In the sense that we see everything the the limited conditioned lense of thought. 

Isn't experience independent of thought? 

 

2 hours ago, Dino D said:

perception is colored, its subjective its like that like this, you can 

Yes our perception is flawed. 

@LastThursday Thanks, these are just self inquiry questions. I'm not looking for a correct answer. 

1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

@Deep

1) does that matter?

2) does that matter?

3) does that matter?

To really answer your questions, you need to stop assuming things you don't really know.

For example what is existence? What is the "mind"? And so on...

These are just self inquiry questions (except for the 3rd) to help other people. I'm not looking for a right answer. 

My answer to the 1st two questions is based on my experience. 

[Faceless]

15 hours ago, Deep said:

Isn't experience independent of thought? 

?

??

If there is an experiencer ‘the accumulation of memory,knowledge, and past experiences which is thought then experience is not independent of thought. 

Do you see this? 

 

Do you see that experience in never new and is always the result of what is recognized and already known? 

[Deep]

3 hours ago, Faceless said:

If there is an experiencer ‘the accumulation of memory,knowledge, and past experiences which is thought then experience is not independent of thought. 

Do you see this? 

That's a superimposition of thought onto our present experience. Experience is present even after thoughts are eliminated. 

 

[Faceless]

18 minutes ago, Deep said:

That's a superimposition of thought onto our present experience. Experience is present even after thoughts are eliminated. 

All present experiences are the result of thought. You can only experience something that you recongnoze. As far fetched as a may seem to be there is no new experience. All experience is determined on what is known ‘accumulation of memory/knowledge of ones past’ 

This is very complex and can be confusing. Check into this. I doubt I will convince you of this. This must be explored solo. 

Check it out?

Edited March 21, 2018 by Faceless

[Nahm]

On 3/20/2018 at 2:22 PM, BjarkeT said:

@Dino D

if people have only experience perception then what do people mean with direct experience that most people talk about on the forum? i hear direct experience a lot when people talk about truth in the forum never heard perception 

Direct experience is without your person, without illusion, only the absolute, which is what you are - this is why the word direct is used (no senses, no thought, no person). It’s the most worthwhile experience in any human lifetime, imo.

[LastThursday]

2 hours ago, Faceless said:

All present experiences are the result of thought. You can only experience something that you recongnoze. As far fetched as a may seem to be there is no new experience. All experience is determined on what is known ‘accumulation of memory/knowledge of ones past’

I'd go further and say memory is in fact THE thing that makes the whole of awareness of experience possible. WTH is it? Where is it accumulated? What is accumulated? Strip memory away and what are you left with?

[Faceless]

Yeah....An inability to think. No thought. No identification. No recollection. In that case no experiencing.  Absolute Truth. Non dual communion. Harmony.

But that’s an idea. In this case there would be no need for practices, systems, techniques, drugs to reach that great experience. 

The very movements volition in these directions indicates that one has not actually been in this realm. 

The closest thing to this wholeness is not seeking any experience what so ever. The very seeking makes for thought projected experiences and prepetual illusion and deception. 

 

Edited March 21, 2018 by Faceless

[LastThursday]

@Faceless its worse/better than that: a kaleidoscope of unfathomable pretty shapes and sounds and feelings and sensations forever dancing? I should be a poet...

[Moreira]

My theory is like individual consciousness (people) are mirrors where the universe is looking himself

[Nahm]

@now is forever Reads like an ad for direct experience.  

You could know the answers to all of that. Homeostasis is the rule, but there are exceptions. You’d need to be outside of psychological awareness / thought to know the answer to your hypothetical psychological question. 

[Nahm]

@now is forever There’s no body. No brain either. You could experience this. Most people believe experience is limited to a brain which is thinking, in a body. This is a belief, based on limited experience. It’s reductionism, and it’s ego centered, not humble. No self is not actuality. 

[Nahm]

On 3/20/2018 at 9:55 AM, Deep said:

Does the universe exist independent of our mind? Exist / nonexistence, is still a duality. You are neither. Universe & mind, is another duality. You’re what’s aware of dualities. 

Was there ever a time when you didn't exist? Exist / nonexistence = duality (thoughts). 

Why does God interact with itself in a rough manner? “Rough” is a matter of consciousness & perspective. A “rough” movie, is just a movie, “rough” is projection.  

I'll share my opinion on these questions later. I want to read your opinions first. lol 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

Mind is a model, it doesn’t actually exist.