Suffering

[Faceless]

52 minutes ago, Ether said:

so many paradoxes and contradictions in the spiritual shit

To negate all the ‘spiritual’ jive because you see it just anohter form of the very mechanism that created ‘spiritualism’...

Thought creates the problems then tries to implement thinking ‘spirituality’ as means to escape itself. 

Dog chasing it’s tail. 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Faceless

[Forestluv]

More abstract conversations can involve confusion. We each have a life history that has shaped our interpretation of abstract words. 

I lived in South America last summer. One day I was telling a story in Spanish to a friend. I wanted to describe a social situation that was awkward. Yet, the meaning we give to awkward has no single word in Spanish. My friend offered words like incomodo (uncomfortable) or raro (strange). That's kinda part of awkward, but not fully. The meaning of awkward was completely obvious to the two other Americans in the group, yet extremely evasive to the Spanish speakers. Similarly, there are four different ways to say "I was" in Spanish. Each has a different sentiment. There are some straightforward rules which verb tense to use, yet there are also areas involving abstract concepts of time and mood. Telling your story is like painting a story. I find Spanish beautiful since there is more space to convey sentiments, yet it's also difficult at times to convey the sentiment I want. It's easy to get directions and chat about food. It's much harder to talk about things like freedom, justice and the nature of suffering. My past history has programmed meanings into my head. Meanings that are different than someone with a very different life history. It's uncomfortable to put myself in these situations, yet they take me out of my box.

Each of us has a filter for the concept of suffering that has been shaped by our life history. I don't speak of what's true, since there is no universal truth. It's just a perception.  Similarly, your use of the terms "I", "suffering" and "other's" can have various meanings when processed through another's mind filter. I find it exciting to discuss various perspectives, yet I also find myself at times trying to be understood and explain "how it is".

One view I like on suffering is that the majority of suffering is due to trying to avoid and escape something painful. Trying to figure out why this happened to me, debating in my head what I should do, analyzing all the potential outcomes, wishing I had only said "such and such" and this never would have happened. This requires a character in my mind that has a story. A character that has a history and continues through time into the future. When I drop the story, there is simply *what is*. Not good or bad. When I see someone else trapped in their story and suffering, I feel a sadness.

[N0self]

Who is the one that is suffering? As soon as you truly see that there is nobody home, there is nobody to suffer. Of course, pleasant and less pleasant experiences will continue, but there will be nobody to own them. When you make this transition, the suffering of other "people' will be seen in a different light. 

Edited March 14, 2018 by N0self

[hundreth]

On 3/12/2018 at 6:35 PM, Outer said:

You do exist. You're the only one who does exist. Others don't exist though.

You = dreamer = consciousness = I AM = true.

Fred = dream material = stuff that's consciousness is conscious of = false but necessary.

This is solipsism. I don't believe this is what is being taught here. The metaphor I like is many leaves off the branches of an infinite tree. It's all one tree, but each leaf is connected and experiencing it's own perspective. So "Fred" is just as real as you are.

[Forestluv]

14 minutes ago, N0self said:

Who is the one that is suffering? As soon as you truly see that there is nobody home, there is nobody to suffer. Of course, pleasant and less pleasant experiences will continue, but there will be nobody to own them. When you make this transition, the suffering of other "people' will be seen in a different light. 

I've experienced some awakenings of the self as an illusionary character. Like a character in a movie. For me that character is part of the mind-body dynamic. That character still wants to eat, have sex etc. It comes and goes for me. Sometimes there is an awareness of the character playing out a role, other times there is no awareness and there is immersion into the story of the character.

[hundreth]

1 minute ago, Outer said:

The infinite tree is I am? Solipsism? Nah. Fred is false. So is Outer.

Fair enough, if you're looking at it from the frame of reference of the root of the tree. 

[N0self]

@Serotoninluv

For me it's like watching TV: i immerse in the story, but whatever happens on the screen I will never take it for real. In live I immerse in the story too, that's what 'the play of consciousness' does. But whatever happens, I'll never take it for real. 

 

[Forestluv]

On 3/14/2018 at 3:24 PM, N0self said:

@Serotoninluv

For me it's like watching TV: i immerse in the story, but whatever happens on the screen I will never take it for real. In live I immerse in the story too, that's what 'the play of consciousness' does. But whatever happens, I'll never take it for real. 

 

Who is the “I” that is watching the screen?

who is the “I” that will never take it for real?

[N0self]

21 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Who is the “I” that is watching the screen?

who is the “I” that will never take it for real?

It's the I which is communicating with you through words and concepts which make no sense without the word I used. That's exactly the I that doesn't exist and tries to convince himself (and others) that he is something by using these kind of sentences, words and concepts. 

What I truly am can't possibly be spoken about in a language based on a false paradigm. 

[Guest Quanty]

I understand that Completion is Love. In Love there is no suffering. What is outside of completion/love hurts. The opposite of love is fear not hate. Enlightenment in it self is Love, the energy flows without restriction. The other human beings that are running around to make a better living they are suffering every day because they think they can better themselves. So yes, the majority of us suffer because they run around chasing ghosts.

To answer your premise: We experience suffering while we are in a state of no-completion. So the premise does not apply to everyone.

 

Namaste, Mfks!