Wes

The Fourth Way

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A few years back I followed Leo's recommendation of reading "The Psychology of Man's Possible Evolution".  Following this great little book, I decided to pursue the field further and have read various books by Gurdjeff and Ouspensky. I am currently reading volume 3 of the 5 volumes of "Psychological Commentaries" by Nicoll and have been applying Gurdjeff's work and gaining momentum for about 2 years now, whilst also following and working with Leo's guides to self actualisation and enlightenment enquiry.

All of this work is having a deep effect on my being.  However I understand that this is just the beginning and am a little uncertain as to which techniques I should use in continuing. I would appreciate anyone's advice or opinions on the technique of developing magnetic centre, deputy steward, steward and "real I" through self observation, self remembering and dis-identification.  I've been applying these techniques for over 2 years now but also through Leo's videos etc, I'm aware that concepts such as deputy steward, are basically the building of neural networks so to achieve change within oneself and that "real I" is the understanding that there is no real self. This can be followed by achieving a state where all of those little "I's" no longer take control of one's being any more than necessary for their life function. 

Over the past 6 months I have had experiences of what I thought to be "real I". Usually lasting for a day or 2 at a time, followed by the drop back down into lower levels of consciousness and getting caught up/identifying with life situations again. I understand this is an inevitable process that "I" must go through to attain more stable and balanced levels of consciousness. Today is a perfect example where I seem to have dropped back down to a particularly low level consciousness. I am feeling confused about where "I" am in the work and if these glimpses of "real i" were even real in the first place and not just another veil to one of my many egos.  Everything is ego. So when I think I'm at the consciousness level of "real I", or "deputy steward" or whatever, then is it not really just another image/opinion of oneself in that moment. One of many "I's" attaching itself/identifying with a particular energy level or state of being whilst being watched by another observing I.  An illusion within an illusion within an illusion kind of thing..

As I understand it, the fundamental process of Gurdjeff's work is to separate from what I believe I am. Both personality and false personality, so that essence can grow and then at a later time when "I'm" ready, all of these temporary networks that I have created such as "steward" will be much easier to dissolve. Sorry if this  isn't that clear. As i said I'm feeling a little confused and would appreciate any suggestions or information from anyone.

Thanks

Wes

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2 hours ago, Wes said:

I understand this is an inevitable process that "I" must go through to attain more stable and balanced levels of consciousness. Today is a perfect example where I seem to have dropped back down to a particularly low level consciousness. I am feeling confused about where "I" am in the work and if these glimpses of "real i" were even real in the first place and not just another veil to one of my many egos.  Everything is ego. So when I think I'm at the consciousness level of "real I", or "deputy steward" or whatever, then is it not really just another image/opinion of oneself in that moment. One of many "I's" attaching itself/identifying with a particular energy level or state of being whilst being watched by another observing I.  An illusion within an illusion within an illusion kind of thing..

The advantage of Gurdjieff's system is that it is confusing, but the disadvantage is that is not direct. Pushing through and taking action whilst being conscious of your confusion, deliberately letting yourself be confused, is an emotionally difficult and rewarding path, akin to Zen Buddhist koans. I'm not too well read on his work, how much does he stress detachment?

You said it yourself, but maybe I can help clarify:

it is an inevitable process;

"I dropped down to a lower level of consciousness" is attachment to a state - remain the observer of all experience, even when it is emotionally difficult or a thought says you should, want or need otherwise;

understand important distinctions in your own experience;

and my suggestion would be to really, deeply contemplate in length what (1) "I", (2) "self", (3) "ego", (4) "consciousness", (5) "being" and (6) "illusion" actually are in your direct conscious experience.

You may have a robust set of theory, but now a deconstructive application is necessary. Really internalize the fact that the map is not the territory.

Edited by jwkspeck

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The work from Gurdjeff suggests becoming aware  of the different centres in oneself and then to observe negative thoughts and behaviours and basically to realise that typically we do not remember ourselves. (remembering that unconsciously our mind has all kinds of wrong ideas of who and what we are and that we are unaware of our nothingness. At this point one is supposed to work against the negative and unconscious I's by separating with an observing I. This is followed and joined by many other processes that I wont go into but you are right, I am maybe getting caught up a little too much in the theory side and there was some negativity there from myself today. 

Yes contemplation and self enquiry is something I try to do regularly although sometimes maybe I need to work on my closed mindedness, as some negative I's struggle to see /accept that many versions of reality and truth are co existing at the same time, within and without. I kind of see I, self and ego as the same thing. An illusion but then ultimately consciousness and being are also an illusion and then illusion is just a concept within a concept so everything is illusion but at the same time it is as real as it gets.

One of Leo's quotes springs to mind.. "There is no path but only a fool doesn't walk it".

Your advice is helpful. I do need to be more patient, observe my thoughts and actions more and apply the work practically without allowing negative I's to beat myself up about it. Thanks for the reply!

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I find this interesting so I'd like to follow up a bit.

2 hours ago, Wes said:

Gurdjeff suggests becoming aware  of the different centres in oneself and then to observe negative thoughts and behaviours

Labeling these different centres (or repeating some cycle of labels onto different centres) is much different from being conscious of them. Do you find this to be the case? Observing negative thoughts and behaviours does two things: it labels a thought or behaviour as negative (this is critical judgment, a desire for the case of the matter to be otherwise) as well as reinforces your subconscious goal as these thoughts and behaviours (unwittingly). If you are labeling it negative, it won't help you to dwell on them. If you are going to ruminate, ruminate on a question or something positive, creative.

2 hours ago, Wes said:

work against the negative and unconscious I's by separating with an observing I

How do you define "I" here? Is it an experience? A thought, or some sensation? Are you, the observer, an experience?

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I think the idea of the work is to begin by giving it a foundation within the intellectual centre, so that it can spread from the emotional part of the intellectual centre into the full emotional centre. It's hard to explain if you haven't been introduced to it. (I recommend "The Psychology of Man's Possible Evolution" and "The Fourth Way" to begin with if you're interested).  I guess the idea is to try to build mental patterns within so that eventually "the work" is alive within oneself.

Labelling the centres allows us to become conscious of them yes and then the the aim is to become aware of any negative I's that are attached to or originate from certain centres. Or as you said, to a degree, labelling them as negative. Again I think it's aimed at reinforcing the work into the intellectual centre and eventually it becoming commonplace to separate from any I's that do not support the work. Although yes to a degree at these early stages it seems there is some form of judgement involved. However it is not suggested to dwell or contemplate these  thoughts. Just firstly to observe and separate from them and then if you like, to banish these I's from existence or allow them to die.

The idea of the I's within the work is conceptual although it often states that they are all very much alive! It suggests that there are thousands of I's within our psyche, lot's of them are negative and unconscious. By introducing the work the aim is to dissolve these I's that do not correlate with it. One must create "Magnetic Centre", a work related conceptual I that is the seed to a completely new self.  It is based around a formed habit of the work, and  its aim is to observe buffers within oneself. Buffers are basically the deepest lies we tell ourselves that we are so unaware of that most of us will never notice them. Eventually at some point of continued work, Magnetic Centre becomes "Deputy steward", another conceptual I whom is aware of and begins to work against negative I's.  At some point this develops into "Steward" who really begins to get one's house in order so to speak, basically thoroughly removing all negative non work I's from existence and then arriving at real I. 

This is my understanding not fact and as I am at the beginnings of the work I can't be certain of exactly what any of these stages involve. I'm pretty sure I have developed Magnetic centre but then also from watching Leo's video's and doing meditation, contemplation and self enquiry I have formed all kinds of conceptual I's that are pathways towards Real I.

Thanks for your questions. It's always good to have fresh perspective and to be reminded to question and define my own understanding of things. I'm sure there are many buffers still working within my psyche  that make everything fit perfectly within my paradigm of reality/understanding. I will keep on working! On the upside, I am feeling more positive today and have realised that although yesterday there was negativity and uncertainty. It's inevitable that there is always a side of me observing silently, so far in the depths of my psyche, that those little negative I's don't always notice it. (Or maybe at this point some personalities are too strong within myself to allow essence to have a strong grounding).  I have concluded that Observing I comes from essence and is a gateway to pure awareness. I must remind myself to be patient and not get caught up/identify with these negative I's and just observe as impartially as I can. The work is alive within me!

Edited by Wes

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