ego is synonymous with duality

[alyra]

and duality is not separate from nonduality. after all, all is one. duh. 

 

I see often people talk about ego and it just all seems a little misguided. sure it makes sense that people want to "shed their ego" or however it is that's popular to say it. but you do not destroy what is ego and make it leave, you simply find a way to stop seeing the illusion of ego - the belief of it - you cease from being slave to it. 

 

if anyone thinks that even leo, or sages, or buddha, or the divine are without ego that you are gravely mistaken. look to what transcending means in other aspects of self actualization. everything is the same and yet it is all so different. what was true before enlightenment does not become false after enlightenment. chop wood before and after yada yada ... it is not to eliminate a lie of a belief and replace it with true belief. careful that this is not what you are doing! enlightenment may be to remove the illusion that you were trapped under before. but that illusion is ... idk... "morality" might be a good way to say. illusion is morality. the belief that one thing is right, is the limit to knowledge, that this is the best way and all other ways are wrong. The baby believes a boob is for food. and child understands that food is food, not boobs, boobs are for babies! a teen understands that a boob is sexy. an adult understands to not objectify the boob, it isn't an object to drool over, perhaps instead they come to see it as a symbol of motherhood and/or being a woman. and the woman who's had to face the sorrow of losing that symbol to breast cancer, she'll learn that the boob is nothing, there is no meaning to it, being without your boobs don't make you not be a mother nor woman, they are just flesh that we carry like all the rest. that who we are is not determined by the symbols we worship lmao. but clearly only one of those statements is true! no, no, they are all true, it is just that one holds more importance to you in your state of being. they do not stop being true because you have transcended past that viewpoint. they do not become less true. 

 

I like to think of it as, we remember various ideas and perspectives. and when it makes a difference to apply these as a practice or strategy or action or errand if you will, then they become useful. and that usefulness we call "truth" - see? once it has been found less necessary, it has been found to be nothing more than an idea to remember. this is what transcending belief is. to make it not THE necessary reality of it. to move past dependence on the belief. 

 

transcending the ego? it is to see that life is not limited by the symbols, the belief, of what we've worshiped all our life. those symbols and beliefs don't stop existing. there is just more perspective to it, that helps us to be wise in our behaviors. I use the word "I" all the time, the concept of the self is iconic to imply ego! but what other word would I use to describe the ego that I constantly experience? see - ego is duality. and nonduality cannot be... the absolute, infinite... without all of duality giving contrast to oneness. 

 

when does the ego go away? in your lifetime it won't. at best you'll get glimpses of the absolute. never be fooled into thinking you've obtained it. we always were within the absolute, but the absolute has always been greater than just the ego we experience as existence. that is what ego is. it won't go away. it is as fundamental as perspective itself. 

 

the ego isn't a bad thing. what is "bad" is for someone to get carried away by the ego as if it is the only truth. it is just one piece of the infinite truth. and yet it is the only piece we have to work with at all. 

[Truth]

Far out bruh.

[vizual]

@alyra  When I read your text it seems that you think you are writing something profound. All these absolute statements and claims about reality. But you are writing in all these vague terms without explaining what you really mean by them. This says to me you are deeply in the state of the "non-dual" ego. By a non-dual ego I mean that you think that non-duality(and all its "truths") is actually a part of reality. 

Sorry, just my interpretation of your text. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Truth]

@alyra Shedding your ego is synonymous with finding a way to stop seeing the illusion of ego.

There's nothing to arbitrate or defend here. 

[alyra]

On 1/12/2018 at 1:28 PM, Truth said:

@alyra Shedding your ego is synonymous with finding a way to stop seeing the illusion of ego.

There's nothing to arbitrate or defend here. 

If you stop seeing yin and look at yang, you still see yin you just fail to recognize it. I am trying to show with words how yin and yang are both there even if you believe you’ve hidden one. They are each other in this way. 

 

And yes, it’s deeper than that, but I guess I’m just suggesting, don’t get caught up demonizing the ego. 

[alyra]

On 1/12/2018 at 1:10 PM, vizual said:

@alyra  When I read your text it seems that you think you are writing something profound. All these absolute statements and claims about reality. But you are writing in all these vague terms without explaining what you really mean by them. This says to me you are deeply in the state of the "non-dual" ego. By a non-dual ego I mean that you think that non-duality(and all its "truths") is actually a part of reality. 

Sorry, just my interpretation of your text. Maybe I'm wrong.

All I write is meaningless prattle. Empty symbols. Why bother saying anything at all!

 

 

You are saying there is first, non duality, and second, reality. Doesn’t make much sense to me. 

 

 

Sure I have a hard time really (uh.... hm. Experience nor understanding nor seeing really captures the meaning at all. The meaning doesn’t either lol meaning is just a higher level symbol lmao. It fails at it too.) But uh, yes, I struggle to really “capture” nonduality I mean of course I would. It is beyond limits, and we can only sense/think/process limits. It’s a fools game to chase after what can’t be captured, but the wise man finds the profound everywhere she looks. All I attempt to do with this thread is remind people that knowledge is not truth, but belief, lol. Aka ego is you in every way (and me too, a different ego you could say, I mean by definition ego is in dual perspective, me v not-me) 

Also thanks for finding me profound, im flattered...  I’m pretty sure I just sound like an ass in this thread  almost didn’t even bother to start it  

 

grr it’s hard trying to  explain it tho. Everything I say is riddled with irony and contradiction. 

[Omni]

Probably could just be my ego; but I agree with this notion - it makes sense. People try to dissolve it as if it's something that can be 'slain' when realistically we're not trying to create another enemy, rather accept it as we should with everything else we find 'discomforting' in our lives and be conscious enough to see beyond it.

[Note that when i say should I do not imply that my statement means to exert my belief, rather convey my own perception of the matter.]

Edited January 14, 2018 by Omni

[Truth]

54 minutes ago, alyra said:

don’t get caught up demonizing the ego. 

And who said I was doing that?

Edited January 14, 2018 by Truth

[alyra]

@Truth I am just reiterating  idk how to speak to all readers without using a misleading singular pronoun

 

 

[Nahm]

@alyra I had a little trouble isolating the points in the rest, but I love this....

“I see often people talk about ego and it just all seems a little misguided. sure it makes sense that people want to "shed their ego" or however it is that's popular to say it. but you do not destroy what is ego and make it leave, you simply find a way to stop seeing the illusion of ego - the belief of it - you cease from being slave to it.”

Poetic and beautiful imo. Thanks. 

[star ark]

Everyone has a different idea what all these words like ego, mind, time, timeless, absolute, enlightened, god, logos etc actually mean

Some people view law of attraction as a theory to ponder and some people think it means sit and wish to attract good things. Nobody in the latter is surprised when they fail to manifest their own reality when they try and attract good things, but as soon as one good thing comes along they pounce on it act like that was them making it happen. Some people would argue that is in fact the law of attraction -  you can't have everything - and some would say that it is simply delusion. 

So people disagree with you sometimes because they actually have a different meaning to your meaning. The hardest ones for me are the positive people - so deluded - answering every question in some coy manner "but what is the truth?" or "you already are the truth". Those people think they are zen masters and even have adopted these stereotypical zen master traits without realizing how they come across. They would view my ego as a negative person wanting to suffer via their idea of the law of attraction. I don't agree with their interpretation and they don't agree with mine so a discussion is pointless

Edited January 14, 2018 by star ark

[Truth]

1 hour ago, alyra said:

@Truth I am just reiterating  idk how to speak to all readers without using a misleading singular pronoun

 

 

Yeah my bad, I noticed this after I posted.. lol.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Truth

[Forestluv]

“you do not destroy what is ego and make it leave, you simply find a way to stop seeing the illusion of ego - the belief of it - you cease from being slave to it. “

Who is this “you” that stops seeing the illusion of the ego?

[SOUL]

Ego creates an identity from our experience, this identity can be as separate or unified as we allow it to be and we intend it to be. If we cease to believe in the identity the ego has created previously and instead identify with another that may be altogether different than what was identified with before it is through our 'belief' that this agreement with the identity happens.

Even identifying with an infinite absolute nothingness saying we don't exist and calling everything else in life an illusion, a deception and false is done through belief. The ego will eventually identify with whatever we believe in no matter the idea or concept by calling it 'truth' and call everything it's doesn't as 'false' to justify the identification.

In experience we can transcend it all through awareness but as long as we have a body that possesses a brain which produces mind the ego collects that experience into identity....even if it is one of awareness transcending it all.

[alyra]

@Serotoninluv “you” = self = ego = symbol within the scope of the dual = the sum of experiences and memories and beliefs and actions that behaves as a separate entity from that which it perceives. 

 

Nondual or or not we do in fact perceive existences through a veil of duality. It is a part of the experience. That is not separate from that which is inseparable. Yet we manage to do it anyway hah - but that there is the real purpose of “ego death” - to find some level of oneness, elevate consciousness to be less limited by the illusions of duality. 

 

the contradictions are really hard to avoid ...

 

 

@tool/use it. I am unsure if I follow that. I cannot use a mouth to eat itself. I am missing the point... why woul the ego be a tool used to transcend ego? I suppose there is neti neti, or even to look at the yin and notice how it outlines the yang. Is this what is meant by ego as a tool? Or perhaps you are stating how meditation can feel novel and yet remain ego.... the same illusion as before but on a new level of it.. in a way that that is all we can do to try to embrace the absolute.... hm.... thought provoking actually. 

[alyra]

@SOUL ah! Yes! Well said! Even when we discover we have transcended ego, that in and of itself is ego indeed. 

 

Edit: not that it defeats the point of it. When the painter paints the Michelangelo he still remains a painter. He is never a painted. Er,,,  maybe I should say, a peasant who steals from the king’s treasures does not become the king. The teacher who teaches the most accomplished student does not establish that student’s fame fortune nor wealth...

The change is meaningful even if it is not the meaning itself. The practice transcends even when it never reaches the peak. Ego death is a form of transcension. And you can go do it better again after you done it once, twice, a thousand times... and each time could be remarkable!

Edited January 15, 2018 by alyra

[Joseph Maynor]

Emerald explains it very well:

 

[SOUL]

@alyra Awareness observes, although through our intentional life we create experience like the painter that paints, self conscious collects the experience as a canvas collects the paint, identity is merely the expression of that experience as a painting is the expression of the artist. So we can make our life an intentional masterpiece of joy and fulfillment or it can be an accidental and random expression of misery and suffering.

If the ego really does die in the consciousness, there would be no memory of it happening, it wouldn't be told and there would be nothing to teach.  So if someone does speak of it and teach it to others, it hasn't happened for them but it's just another story to tell they heard from someone else that they believe with no experience of it themselves.

Edited January 15, 2018 by SOUL

[alyra]

23 hours ago, SOUL said:

Awareness observes, although through our intentional life we create experience

oh but these are one and the same. 

[alyra]

On 1/15/2018 at 3:54 PM, SOUL said:

ego dies

my precious kitty dies and I remember her fondly. I smile remembering the good times. i sit pensive remembering the rough times. why should ego not die in the same way? even the dinos die and yet billions of years later we find memory of them in the earth. ego is no different. as the earth is essential to life, and life is essential to consiousness, and consiousness is essential to the absolute, they are all one. there is no difference between the death of an ant and the death of the ego. and just as there are many more ants that remain, so too is there many more ego thereafter. it is not a thing to cry over nor shun. 

 

edit: not that crying or shunning is bad if it do happen  of course  

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by alyra