Contemplative Questions

[Dodo]

Who transcends the self? 

If it's me, then that one that just transcended the self has more transcending to do, because there's still a self.

Does this mean that the one that can transcend the self is not me? In other words, I cannot transcend myself?

Did I enter a game that I have 100% chance of losing? 

However,  since the body and mind are not me, perhaps they can transcend me? 

PS: Share your own if you have any. I would love to contemplate

Edited October 20, 2017 by Dodo

[cetus]

@Dodo Here's one for ya. What were you eight days before your conception?

[Dodo]

14 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

@Dodo Here's one for ya. What were you eight days before your conception?

This brings another question to be answered before it

Was I conceived? 

And another q:

Can I find myself in the past ?✌

Edited October 20, 2017 by Dodo

[Leo Gura]

@Dodo You assume there's a you, but there isn't.

[Blue is the sea]

@Leo Gura To me it looks that there is a me. How can i know what is true ? 

How can i know if what i feel/think is true or what you say is true?

 

[Leo Gura]

@Blue is the sea Just sit and observe what is the case. Start doing self-inquiry. Nothing is hidden.

Nothing anyone tells you can ever substitute for personal investigation.

If there is a me, point to it. What is this "me" of which we speak? What is it exactly?

[Nahm]

@Blue is the sea one exercise might be to write down what you think you are or what you might be on paper, and research that. You may find that everything is relative, until that avenue is exhausted. A daily partnership between this exercise and meditation afterwards could be effective. 

[Blue is the sea]

@Nahmi do that everyday . i have not found a me when searching for it but  when i say who am i it looks like i say those words. even though i can't locate me it looks like i say those words.

[InfinitePotential]

This reminds me of Adyashanti's experience of awakening... He basically sat out one day thinking "this is gonna be the day I have an immense psychological breakthrough, it absolutely has to be today or I'm gonna go insane" after having spent many years intensely focusing and practicing self-inquiry.  During this sit, he had a realization of complete and utter defeat.  He realized that what he was attempting was completely impossible, and he had failed.  He "entered a game with a 100% chance of losing".  Given that realization, he was able to completely and totally let go, which gave him the (non)-experience he was looking for.

In my opinion, the practice of letting go of absolutely all effort and allowing experience to be (or not be) as it is is the most rewarding practice, and leads to the most growth.

It's kind of like one of Leo's videos during his 7 day retreat... The moths from outside the window were trying to reach the light inside, but it was an absolutely futile endeavor.  No matter how hard they tried, they would not reach the light.  It would require some completely new kind of quantum leap for them to reach inside; a discontinuous jump.  Similarly for us to realize our selves will require something totally unlike anything we've ever experienced.  How could you experience yourself?  For whatever is having that experience is not being experienced.  It will require exercising a muscle you've never used before, namely getting good at not trying.  Or maybe it takes a little bit of blind luck, or magic.

That being said, practicing self-inquiry is still very valuable and worthwhile.  Had Adyashanti not done so, he wouldn't have been able to feel that complete and utter defeat and totally let go.

[Nahm]

@Blue is the sea Hell ya it seems that way. I hear you.   Consider....why do you think what says words is you? Are you you when you’re not talking? Are you the thinking, the mouth, the sound?  The hand that writes?  Don’t eyes say more than words? Isn’t silence the loudest sound? 

Edited October 21, 2017 by Nahm

[Just10]

@Blue is the sea When you're looking for yourself, and you don't find the me, what about that makes you think you're failing?  There's lots of talk around here about no me.  No self.  And you say it seems like there's a me...and yet...you cannot find it.

When you're looking for yourself are you just sitting there?  Does a thought come in while you're looking?  Does it go away?  Who is sitting there looking for me?  Who is thinking?  Who is watching the thoughts?  Who is having the thoughts?

Does it almost feel like there are two people?  Someone thinking, and someone watching someone think?

I mean...if you're dedicating time and life to sitting down and looking for me why would you interrupt yourself during this process with a thought?  Maybe you don't think?  Maybe you don't do anything?  Maybe "me" does the thinking?  Maybe "me" does stuff?  Maybe "me" isn't really you, isn't really "self"?

/shrug

Maybe...it just is what it is.  And that's all there is.  And this...searching for a me to destroy, or a me to become is just...causing more...suffering?

 

[Serge]

There doesn't really have to be a "me".

Since we were children, we've been using this word in our vocabulary. "I think", "I feel", "I believe", "I know" etc. So it became like something inherent and unquestionable for our minds. So we assume that this "I" is a thing, it's something that undoubtely IS there.

It's misleading. SOOO misleading. You have no idea how illusory the words can be. The phrase "I think" can be substituted with the phrase "thoughts appear in my consciousness". The meaning remains the same, right? Sure it does! But... But there's still a "my" in the statement, right? Like, it implies that something possesses this consciousness! So, there's got to be something, right? The "I" exists! But... Wait.... Let's take a closer look to that statement:

"something possesses this consciousness"

Hmm.... A-ha! Here's the issue! We simply commit an equivocation fallacy here! Good Ol' Logic!  

We usually use the word "possess" for something "external". Let's look at the example "I possess/have a car" (don't pay attention to the "I" in this example statement, it's not the point, focus on the "have/possess" part, or what would be better, try to look at "I possess" as if it was one word, one thought). So, the statement "I possess a car". When we closely analyze the thoughts beyond those words. we understand that what we mean by them is just a set of characteristics! It might be something like "The car is parked in my garage", "I spent money on it", "I have some papers that legally prove that it's mine", "I drive it often" etc. See ? There's nothing more to that!

Now, let's get back to our statement! Try to analyze "something possesses this consciousness". Don't you feel like it doesn't work? Doesn't it feel like it doesn't make sense to apply this word to the magical "I" ? Don't you see that there's no meaning behind that? Like a dead end?

You just cannot say "I possess a consciousness" in the same fashion you say "I possess a car". 

 

So, my dear friends, THE CASE IS SOLVED!   It's just an illusion! You see, words can be really, really tricky! And that's what Leo means when he says "question the shit out of everything"  If you don't, you get caught up by those illusions. And suffer.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Serge

[Blue is the sea]

@Just10

22 hours ago, Just10 said:

Does it almost feel like there are two people?  Someone thinking, and someone watching someone think?

yes it feels. who's thinking? who's watching? ( it looks like the watcher dosen't feel or think )

 

22 hours ago, Just10 said:

There's lots of talk around here about no me.  No self.  And you say it seems like there's a me...and yet...you cannot find it.

i'm looking for whatever it is. and i can't find a me. but still there's something that tells me that even though i'm not finding me the search is not over ,even if it's a me or not.  .

@Serge

19 hours ago, Serge said:

 "thoughts appear in my consciousness".

actually we can use just thoughts appear in consciousness and it still makes sense. thank you for the example  

[Dodo]

What's the sound of one hand clapping? 

Could it be slapping ???