Rock Bottom - Ridiculously Terrified

[ajasatya]

1 hour ago, Preetom said:

hey brother, can you pray for us lost, confused fellas please?

very intimately in my heart, i do pray for all of us. i want us all to be free of suffering and responsible for a better world.

21 hours ago, Fuse said:

What exactly are those feelings which are begging for me to feel? Anger? Sadness? Loneliness? Regret?

feel it all. find and feel the very source of your pain in your body. the thought is just an illusory statement. the emotion is physical and real. be with the emotions and let go of thoughts.

[Fuse]

@ajasatya So, you're basically saying I need to go through my life running off my emotions instead of my thoughts? My thoughts terrify me, make me feel horrible and quickly evoke some kind of negative emotion inside of me.

It seems a lot to deal with for the rest of my life when thoughts such as 'Fuck it, I'm obviously screwed' or 'Just give up now, there's no point after all you've done' arise every 5 minutes. It is very taxing on my energy levels and the way I operate throughout life in general. 

I can see recognize these awful thoughts, feel the emotions they bring. But what if the thoughts are true and they're right? 

[ajasatya]

4 hours ago, Fuse said:

But what if the thoughts are true and they're right?

if you really want to investigate what is True, you will run out of things to say. nothing is absolutely true. not even physics. not even mathematics, since mathematics are logical constructions made out of relative choices of humanly convenient axioms.

you won't be feeling heavy and dense emotions for the rest of your life. you just need to be up to date with the present moment and stop accumulating emotional blockages. free the emotional blockages you have at the moment and enter in the flow of Life. you should then experience Reality as a balanced river which is not dry nor overflowing.

the universe of human feelings, if experienced with order instead of chaos, is actually extraordinarily wonderful.

[Fuse]

@ajasatya So, reality in the present moment is where it's at. What about my relationships with other people? My problem impacts not just myself but others too.

My family seems so distant from me while I'm trapped in what seems to be a dark void with nobody else around me. The friends I used to have think I'm a weird loser. Everyone I come across talks to me like I am some kind of abnormal freak. Since I am a serious addict, I can't help but feel that women would never want to be in a relationship with a disgusting pervert (How I feel) no matter how improved I seem.

These things only back up my thoughts even more, making me believe that they are the truth and nothing else is a possibility. A large part of my obsession is me believing that I could never be a normal human being that I want to be. My experiences seem to prove this every single day. It feeds into my thoughts, then more negative events occur... Like an endless cycle of torture.

[vizual]

@Fuse When you hit rock bottom, there is only one thing left. Rock climbing! I'm serious. You are looking for stimulation of the senses in a very unhealthy way. You need to find healthier ways to get in touch with your senses. You have them for a reason. If your body can't express the senses in a healthy way it's going to crave unhealthy and "easy" ways for them to express.

Do you do any physical activities? Like, rock climbing, swimming, sports, travelling, exploring new environments etc.? The more you fear these things, the more reason for you to do it. It's going t seem very shallow and simple. But believe me, actually going outside and doing stuff can change your perspective in life. A lot of depression comes from people living in boxes(which we call rooms). People living in boxes adapt a box way of thinking, which is not healthy. You can break from this perspective by going into the physical world, and engage with it. It helps by tuning out of the "box" way of thinking, and tuning into actual reality way of thinking.

[ajasatya]

2 hours ago, Fuse said:

So, reality in the present moment is where it's at. What about my relationships with other people? My problem impacts not just myself but others too.

yes, Reality (the present moment) is the NOW with all of its complexity. a mystical and complex dance of immaterial sources of vibrations with light and sound bouncing everywhere and a miraculous filter to make experience stable (possible) and meaningful.

you have unhealthy relationships with other people because you have an unhealthy relationship with solitude. since you haven't trained yourself to appreciate the mystical experience of the present moment, you become anxious, as if something terrible is about to happen all the time. try sitting down and exposing yourself to this "bad thing". wait for it to happen. why should you suffer when you're not doing anything? why should you suffer when all you're doing is just sitting? don't you have the right to sit down? does it make sense?

learn the hard lesson of being alone first. "bad" thoughts arise, but you won't be able to assert their veracity. you won't be able to do so not because you're intellectually incapable, but because it's an impossible task. stop thinking that you need the approval of others to be happy and just be happy with the mystical experience of the present moment. when you learn to be content and steady with only what's happening right now, that's enlightenment. that's the full healing.

[Preetom]

I once saw a video of a monk speaking something along the following lines:

All human problems/suffering is basically a result of 'Mis'-Perception. We suffer because we don't know how to perceive properly. We generally perceive everything with our labels and projection. We are actually coloring a blank canvas then crying about the color. 

The moment we learn to just perceive things as they really are which is nothing but pure being, all other aspects just auto correct and get into complete harmony. That's basically the main job of meditation/mindfulness training. Setting our perception right.

All our notion about us, others and things are just a complete joke when you actually perceive things right. But its a very miserable state which binds us into this self-perpetuating prison when we Mis-Perceive 

Edited October 23, 2017 by Preetom

[Fuse]

@vizual I have led a life without much exercise besides basic stuff like walking. Even walking is something I have neglected for my whole life, choosing instead to be indoors constantly like a scared loser. 

I recently did some long walks as suggested on here to help become aware of my thoughts and emotions. It was a weird experience for me, acknowledging myself completely. It made me feel scared, angry and lonely.

I am trying to start with VERY small exercise steps such as 5 pushups. Even something as mediocre as that made me feel drained and caused bad aching. Little steps for action like that can make me feel disheartened when I get a barrage of thoughts telling me there's no point.

[Fuse]

@ajasatya My bad relationship with solitude is partly because of my addiction, right? Because I can't honestly feel happy right now without some extreme stimulation or other distractions.

I did a sit for two hours a few weeks ago, it felt weird. I wasn't very agitated, but I was definitely unhappy and lost in my head the entire time. I guess you could say I felt like I wasn't actually present, just trapped in my mind thinking up craziness as usual. I was also very relieved when it was over, so that I could go back to distracting myself again.

I definitely focus a lot on approval (Something I am working to fix) but that is only one aspect of the situation. It's like any type of action I take results in terrible thoughts and negative emotions. Trying to get out of my head and accept solitude, exercising etc. It honestly feels like there's a monster inside of me telling me to give up completely and forget trying to improve myself and pursue happiness.

I think the biggest factor in this is my mind telling me that there's no hope for me anymore, since that alone prevents all kinds of action. It is the worst mindset possible.

[ajasatya]

48 minutes ago, Fuse said:

I recently did some long walks as suggested on here to help become aware of my thoughts and emotions. It was a weird experience for me, acknowledging myself completely. It made me feel scared, angry and lonely.

very good. keep doing it. get used to this kind of experience.

35 minutes ago, Fuse said:

I did a sit for two hours a few weeks ago, it felt weird. I wasn't very agitated, but I was definitely unhappy and lost in my head the entire time. I guess you could say I felt like I wasn't actually present, just trapped in my mind thinking up craziness as usual. I was also very relieved when it was over, so that I could go back to distracting myself again.

wonderful. you're achieving a better understanding of your own situation.
try implementing a daily routine of shorter meditation sessions instead of doing huge and exhausting attempts. it's more effective and more efficient.

35 minutes ago, Fuse said:

I definitely focus a lot on approval (Something I am working to fix) but that is only one aspect of the situation. It's like any type of action I take results in terrible thoughts and negative emotions. Trying to get out of my head and accept solitude, exercising etc. It honestly feels like there's a monster inside of me telling me to give up completely and forget trying to improve myself and pursue happiness.

I think the biggest factor in this is my mind telling me that there's no hope for me anymore, since that alone prevents all kinds of action. It is the worst mindset possible.

you've been telling this "there is no hope" story to yourself for decades. anything that's said repeatedly over time feels more and more true as time goes by. so don't expect to purify yourself from this pattern too soon. it might take a while and awareness is the key. be aware of the thoughts but don't simply believe them as you've been doing for such a long time.

meditate, walk, do your 5 pushups. what a winner already.
meditate, walk, do your 5 pushups. what a winner already.
meditate, walk, do your 5 pushups. what a winner already.
meditate, walk, do your 5 pushups. what a winner already.
do it.

Edited October 23, 2017 by ajasatya

[Fuse]

@ajasatya I'd just like to add, the 'no hope' thoughts and stories only really become a major concern for me as I slowly progressed through my addiction, now becoming unbearable as of today. I'd say that I've been an addict for at least 5-6 years, which is shocking considering my age. 

I used to be full of hope, making awesome plans for my future and getting motivated to improve myself and live my greatest passion. I constantly remind myself that I have 'failed' life after letting my addiction get so out of hand and made so many awful mistakes.

With what we're talking about, I can definitely see myself gaining awareness over my thoughts and negative behaviours, but it is very difficult for me to imagine not actually believing my thoughts and leading an amazing life at this point. 

I know the thoughts are there, and I feel the emotions they bring. I just feel as though the damage has been done and my future is bleak after all I've done. It's definitely the worst place I've been, mentally. After everything that's ever happened to me, I've always had certainty that it would pass and I would recover... But this time, I feel only the odd glitter of hope as I live through my gloomy thoughts.

Also, I currently meditate for 30 minutes every day in one sitting. Would you recommend changing this pattern to something like two sits of 15 minutes per day instead? 

[ajasatya]

12 minutes ago, Fuse said:

Also, I currently meditate for 30 minutes every day in one sitting. Would you recommend changing this pattern to something like two sits of 15 minutes per day instead?

no. the 30 mins is great. start doing simple tasks like cleaning the floor and washing dishes while breathing mindfully. expand the practice throughout the day.

[Fuse]

@ajasatya I will stick with 30 minutes for now then. I am wondering... Why do I believe my thoughts always? Always believing everything I think up no matter how ridiculous or far fetched it is. 

This more than likely shows why I always assume the worst in all of my thoughts.

[ajasatya]

19 minutes ago, Fuse said:

I always assume the worst in all of my thoughts.

this also points to some kind of addiction to suffering, don't you think?

[Fuse]

@ajasatya True... 

That definitely is what it looks like. Why the hell would I be addicted to suffering though? I want to do anything but suffer! That confuses me a lot.

I think guilt, shame and regret are a huge reason for my assuming the worst. As in, if I'm not assuming the worst here and feeling terrible shame, I must be a bad person. That's sort of the process I have running in my mind.

[Nadosa]

You are addicted to suffering (so am I) because you haven't experienced the peaceful bliss of present awareness. Once you practise that, all your suffering will gradually vanish. I myself had one moment of awareness  (long time ago) where I could clearly see the illusionary nature of suffering. It is so scary what our minds do to us when being unconscious.

[Fuse]

@Wormon Blatburm I used to have awesome visions of where I wanted to end up in life, but they fade away quickly as soon as my mind floods with my obsessive thoughts alongside a doom and gloom attitude.

I force myself every day not to do what you were describing as lying in bed wallowing in self pity and hopelessness. To be honest, I don't know why I do this. It's probably because I think it will be too painful to just lie there without any distractions and feeling trapped in my head. 

I get odd feelings of hope throughout my day, but they never last. 

[Fuse]

@Wormon Blatburm I like listening to you guys though. My worldview is terrible, it must be to have even gotten me into this awful situation. 

As for the vision thing, I can't really tell which it is. In a way, whatever is left of my vision does overpower the negative thoughts to an extent that I actually get out of bed, accept that I have a huge problem, ask for help, go to college, have passions.

But it is like a war between the vision I have, which wants me to accomplish stuff and my thoughts/negative emotions. I described this earlier as a feeling of having an 'evil monster' inside of me that pulls me back and stops me from being happy. 

[Fuse]

@Wormon Blatburm I've thought about telling my parents about my situation, I feel like I can't do this alone. You guys on here are the only people on the planet who know about my terrible addiction, my obsessive mind, my current shitty life...

I can't help but feel alone in all of this, just a terrified teenager alone in his bedroom trying to combat a ridiculously strong addiction and a crazy suicidal mind with nobody to talk to face to face. 

Do you think sitting down with my parents to explain my situation would be a good idea? I don't know how much more I can take until I finally decide to do something horrible like step in front of a car. 

Maybe this could be the thing I haven't tried yet? 

[Nadosa]

Maybe you should try meds to create a basis and a stable ground. When your meds kick in, you can start establishing new healthy habits. I am in the same hopeless place, meds would be my last-way choice out of this hopelessness, but I've already considered it. Just am seriously afraid of the side effects.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Nadosa