Elisabeth

Choosing Your Meditation Retreat - Don't Make The Same Stupid Mistakes I Made

27 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, Ragib Ashraf said:

It was really nothing like what I expected. Upon the third or fourth day, the suffering and negative emotional build up was so intense that after the evening discourse, I literally went to the bathroom and cried.

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Congratulations on finishing. What happened on day five, after you pushed through your worst?

Edited by Elisabeth

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I don't think you made any "stupid mistakes", Elisabeth.

You're trying to control the process...and you can't.

There isn't a PG-13 version of this, this is hardcore, XXX stuff. Real change, I mean.

I went abroad and did shamanic plants.  And once you take it, you gotta face all your demons.  Can't walk out in the middle of a trip.

But you feel a hell of a lot better afterwards.  Short-term pain for long-term gain.

Edited by Haumea

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@Haumea I've been thinking about your comment, I still am. 

Oh yes I did do stupid mistakes. I went uninformed and unprepared. I knew there were risks associated with doing the technique incorrectly, yet I trusted the teacher blindly to teach me well. I didn't check if the teaching is in line with my goals and values. I didn't build up the foundation of "knowing what and why am I doing" needed before I jumped into the adult stuff. 

It's like if you go do your shamanic plants with just the first guy who offers to brew them for you, with no preparation or aftercare - could be ok but could end up mad. 

Thanks for pointing out that I'm trying to control the process. And, yes, I am. Personal development has it's traps and I do believe we must steer consciously. 

I've had at least 3 friends of mine develop serious mental illness (psychosis and schizophrenia) by doing personal development stuff. Three people is a lot. That would be like ... ~6% of the people I know who do any of this stuff. I'd like to ask the experienced users here not to bagatelize this stuff as if everyone can push through everything.

And my own first random encounter with vipassana ... years ago ... led to a serious depression lasting six weeks. It was one of the more useful depressions in terms of insight, yet it was six weeks giving me trouble at school. (And, it's also very easy to open up a depression which is not useful at all.)

I care about my work right now. I do personal development to help me with it, not hinder me. I've got emotional problems that I want to handle better - I'm fragile and easily overcome by anxiety.  I've got addictions. I've got trouble maintaining a proper working routine. I've got trouble with decision making. All great reasons to work on myself, and I've done a great deal of work over the years. 

Yet if the nature of the techniques (psychedelics, or holotropic breathing, or... I actually don't think vipassana goes into this category) is such that I can't control the pace, I'll leave it to the hardcore people and go search the PG-13 version.

I'm not seeking enlightenment - I've watched Leo's videos on that and it doesn't appeal. So, maybe I'm a hopeless case, or maybe I have to walk the path of developing the ego for a few more years before I can understand that there's something to transcending it.

Anyway, yeah, giving up control - not easy and not desired right now. 

Edited by Elisabeth

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Hi

In my experience, there are at least two tipes of meditation

One, is hardocore meditations techniques, the drive for this, is an spiritual one, This is playing at the edges od your humanity, so, if you want to do that, go do it.

The other, is soft daily practise of maditation, which centers the mind and gives you balance; also, helps you to cope with stress and anxiety.

I finded myself doing the hardcore ones, at the beggining. That's a very newbie mistake. My thoughs, came to be extreme, even suicidal thoughs came to me. Which I neve had had them in my whole life. Then, I said to myself: "That's enough". So I quited spiritual practice, I setted my priorities (1st Body health; 2nd Psychologycal Balance 3rd Family and close friends 4th Responsabilities and studies), and stared doing a course on techniques for calming anxiety. That's very important. I realized that before I could do any meditation advanced technique, I would have to first learn to be stable and balanced, and learn to cope with my anxiety, so it doesnt impact my day to day life.

 

George Leonard, in his book Mastery adress that. I was being the obbsesive with meditation. I though that I would became enlightned and suddenly everything would be amazing. That's not the mastery path. The information Leo provides is very powerful, but very danger in the hand of boys.

 

Summary: Learn to walk, before trying to run. Otherwise, gravity will teach you. 

 

Hope that helps

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Quote

Oh yes I did do stupid mistakes. I went uninformed and unprepared. I knew there were risks associated with doing the technique incorrectly, yet I trusted the teacher blindly to teach me well. I didn't check if the teaching is in line with my goals and values. I didn't build up the foundation of "knowing what and why am I doing" needed before I jumped into the adult stuff. 

You could have had the best teacher, the most comfortable pace... and it's still your demons that are arising.  You can't control the way that manifests.  The unconscious mind has a message to send to you, and you can try and understand the message or run from it.  That's ultimately what this is about. 

You even admit that your temporary depression was useful in terms of insight, so you have experience with what I'm saying.

The people who developed psychosis were probably already on the edge and seeking a solution, so I'm doubtful that self-development actually directly caused it.  Relatively mentally healthy or even just garden variety neurotic people do not develop psychosis as a result of self-development.

I know you're not seeking enlightenment, you're seeking relief from anxiety.  That's why I did shamanic plants.

To end anxiety, you take responsibility for your well-being - stop self-neglecting.  That was the gist of the message I got.

 

Edited by Haumea

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@Elisabeth 

 

I don't think your experience was like.... wasted or anything. in facing demons in those two days you got a glimpse of the work you could do to eradicate them.

 

and while I'm not going to make any claim about the retreat you were at, the more hardcore ones aren't the wrong method, so much as not what is universally a good fit at the time. but I wonder about them.... they sound dangerous if there aren't precautions for emergencies. and, if they don't give any teachings of strategies, but accept anyone, well there's going to be scammed newbies that's for sure..... 

 

 

so like, idk. I'm sure you've found some precautions and like you said eyes open to things you didn't know you'd have to face. those are good start to finding a better meditation practice for you, or to find work you wanna do when practicing. maybe you wanna wait a bit to do a retreat, practicing being with yourself in ways that better enable what you're looking to do. maybe you do want to find another retreat, but have better ideas about how to filter out to find one you want... idk..

 

 

thanks for the precautionary sharing tho. I may have easily overlooked the same things ..

 

 

Edited by alyra
smiley troubles lol

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@Franko @alyra@Haumea I'm sorry that I don't have the time to answer in detail, your posts (despite opposing view) are all on point.

My experience was certainly not wasted. It took me at least two weeks to integrate it. I'm motivated to doing meditation at the moment. (I certainly don't regret leaving early though.)

I'm doing some reading too. http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/essentials.pdf Chapter 9 is something I would have needed to know, although I wouldn't have understood before having a few hours of formal practice, so it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem.  

Take care (all of you who are reading this :)). 

 

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