Are Trolls Real?

[Real Eyes]

16 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

But, do you experience it now?  No?  You experienced it on drugs, right?  Yep.

I'm just curious when you're going to have the realization that psychedelics simply just make you into a temporarily insane person that misinterprets reality.  The misinterpretation is usually heavily influenced by what idea's you surround yourself with, which happens to be existential spirituality.  

I've seen it before Leo, tons of times.  Experienced it too.  Just don't be too disappointed when you're tripping one day and you realize that you're just really, really high and you're not actually experiencing what you think you are.  It tends to be a disappointing moment for most people, it was for me years ago.  

When it happens, just remember that even though there's a lot of wu wu bullshit, there's still a lot of important work to do in spirituality.  It's got a lot of profoundly beneficial aspects to it in a pragmatic sense.  

I haven't read Rick Strassman's "The Spirit Molecule" yet, but I recall hearing that participants in the study with no knowledge of what to expect reported similar visions etc.  Perhaps somebody who has read it can chime in.  If this is indeed the case, that is some evidence against your claim here of there being nothing substantive to these visions. Not decisive evidence, but evidence nonetheless. 

And if you refute the validity of this line of thought by saying that maybe their shared culture is the reason they had similar experiences, I can't really buy that, because there are countless things they could be thinking of as part of the shared culture, why would this handful of things repeatedly come up in visions?  

[Heart of Space]

15 minutes ago, Real Eyes said:

I haven't read Rick Strassman's "The Spirit Molecule" yet, but I recall hearing that participants in the study with no knowledge of what to expect reported similar visions etc.  Perhaps somebody who has read it can chime in.  If this is indeed the case, that is some evidence against your claim here of there being nothing substantive to these visions. Not decisive evidence, but evidence nonetheless. 

And if you refute the validity of this line of thought by saying that maybe their shared culture is the reason they had similar experiences, I can't really buy that, because there are countless things they could be thinking of as part of the shared culture, why would this handful of things repeatedly come up in visions?  

Vaguely similar experience of something that can barely be put into words if at all?  Similar effect on visual cortex?  Similar cultural background?  Extremely biased researchers who have already come to a conclusion before even doing the research?  Anecdotal evidence is the worst evidence?  Explanations a plenty.  Should I go on?
 

Or perhaps they all entered the same part of the 11th dimension in the center of the universe.  You decide what's more plausible.  

Oh here's a fun experiment.  Do you have a friend who wants to use a psychedelic?  Wait till he's peaking on LSD or something similar and tell him the drug gives him the ability to read minds.  And like magic he or she will start to think they're reading other people's minds.  It's hilarious.  People are so open to suggestion it's crazy.  

Or another way to do it is to wait until  they say a private thought out loud (people who are tripping often do this without even realizing it) recognize that they are saying a thought out loud and just repeat it.  Your friend will be floored by your seemingly newly revealed telepathic abilities.  
 

I honestly feel a little bad sucking the magic out of psychedelics for you guys, but you guys need to be brought back to planet earth.  

Edited August 18, 2017 by Heart of Space

[Real Eyes]

11 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

Vaguely similar experience of something that can barely be put into words if at all?  Similar effect on visual cortex?  Similar cultural background?  Extremely biased researchers who have already come to a conclusion before even doing the research?  Anecdotal evidence is the worst evidence?  Explanations a plenty.  Should I go on?

Well as I've said I haven't read it yet, however IF the visions are very specific, I don't think these reasons you provided are enough to discount them being valid.  

The best sort of evidence we could get would be a study with people from different cultures taking the same substance in the exact same conditions, and have them report their experience.  Maybe this has already been done.  I'd like to see the results if so.

[Heart of Space]

Just now, Real Eyes said:

Well as I've said I haven't read it yet, however IF the visions are very specific, I don't think these reasons you provided are enough to discount them being valid.  

The best sort of evidence we could get would be a study with people from different cultures taking the same substance in the exact same conditions, and have them report their experience.  Maybe this has already been done.  I'd like to see the results if so.

Seen the documentary.  They're incredibly vague descriptions.  Not very compelling at all tbh.   

No one has ever come back from a DMT trip with a new never before seen solution to a physics problem or anything like that.  Nothing that's not easily explainable.  

Psychedelics have their uses.  They can motivate you in general, they can help you understand yourself psychologically, and they open your mind to new possibilities.  Do they send you to the 12 dimension with aliens and worm holes?  Nah, probably not.  

[Joseph Maynor]

I don't want to start a fight here but those who are saying that psychedelic highs are not real are putting forward a belief about the Truth and not being the Truth.  All beliefs about the Truth are existentially false.  This is because what you are doing is telling a story about reality rather than being reality.  When you deeply are reality, your mouth and mind stops with the judgments and with the theorizing about features of reality.  So, if you are tripping balls, and you are being that, that is reality.  Any belief that someone has in their head at that time, any judgment about that, would be irrelevant to the person tripping.  Now, here's a question -- Is awareness required for being reality?  Does awareness go away when you trip?  This is kind of a crazy question.  Whuddya think?  Awareness is an egoic concept too because it turns a little phrase within non-dual nothingness.  

Theories of reality, beliefs about reality, will set you 100 miles apart from enlightenment.  Reality just is, it has nothing to do with our beliefs.  So any judgment you make about reality doesn't touch reality.  It's like the difference between drawing a cat on a piece of paper and petting a real cat.  One ain't the other and the other ain't the one.  I made huge advances in my enlightenment when I realized that judgments are all egoic -- and as grasping though the rational, probing, judging, conceptualizing mind is -- reality falls though its determined, grasping-fingers live a sieve.  And this ain't just another belief.  If you are mindful you can confirm this by being the Truth.  In enlightenment, knowing is Be-ing.  But this can be misunderstood too, so don't turn this into another belief.  You gotta see what this scaffolding is pointing you do.  The trap of augmenting reality is a pretty big one.  The mind wants to augment and color reality.  Augmented reality is a filter, not non-dual reality.  It's a fabrication of your own mind.  Self-delusion permeates far and wide.  The mind is a sneaky little devil.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, Heart of Space said:

No, no.  I'm not believing firmly in shite, baby cakes.  

Leo and others are affirming with seemingly 100 percent certainty that there is no external reality and it's all a complete hallucination.  Now, I think after it's been explained further the issue with the word was partly semantic.  But, what I still have an issue with is the fact that there is a consistent, deterministic reality that is corroborated by experience over and over countless times.  This is evidence of an external world in some form, even if it is not as it appears directly to our senses.  I don't claim to know if there is an external world, but I'm very open to the possibility.  I'm only against the position that completely disregards any possibility of a consistent  external reality in any form.  It's coming across as a bit dogmatic.  

It's just semantics again my dude. "Reality" IS just a "hallucination" - but there's no reason why this hallucination shouldn't have rules.

It's like saying playing Super Mario Bros. on your NES is a hallucination. It's not a hallucination but it is a hallucination if you become attached. So it both IS and ISN'T a hallucination simultaneously, it just depends on your frame of reference.

I believe this thread is asking the question, "Do trolls exist in the originally released Super Mario Bros. NES game?" - Not really. I don't see the evidence for it, although those koopas do share a striking resemblance...  ? 

[hundreth]

What's amazing is that we've all been playing the GOD game, creating dream worlds within dream worlds in the form of entertainment. We've been the dream world creating and playing our own dream worlds, and it's right under our nose. The dream worlds go on recursively forever, we're like an infinite fractal.

[Soulbass]

About realities : it's said that after death, our consciousness float to a place which reflect it's inner state (source : Bardo Thödol).

Catholics will respawn in a virtual heaven, and it seems legit to them (until they move one to another place).

Someone who believe in nothing after death, will create a bubble of "nothing" and isolate him/herself (sometimes for centuries).

In the astral it's possible to explore worlds which had been imagined by individuals or collectively, such as fictional books or video games...

This makes me think we are projecting right now, except in a certain density/frequency and being hosted by gaïa.

Off topic : my theory is that everybody around me is enlightened, but act like if no-one is enlightened but lower their consciousness as mine, just to let me act my role and learn from them (mirrors).

A new esoteric library recently opened in my town. I have already a lot of books to read, and I start to get bored of rationalizing things using my mental. This time I closed my eyes and let my hand choose a random book. The book talk about Hawaiian tradition (ho'oponopono) but was mistakenly put into jewish's culture. It's about communication between conscious, subconscious and supraconscious.

I have tried Lucia Light technology (Lucia N°03) and I've seen the higher-self healing me (those beings don't talk, very calm, and divine vibe similar to Alex Gray's paintings or Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen).

This had nothing to do with trolls, but I wanted to share.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Soulbass

[cetus]

@Leo Gura Are Trolls Real?   

8 pages worth? If they weren't before-they are now! They've been given life.

 

[Sevi]

9 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

If they weren't before-they are now! They've been given life.

 

And who appreciates Leo, are not just homo-sapiens anymore

[cetus]

   There are entities which are in the world, and which act on people. They are here, around us at all times. In daylight, however, it is more difficult to perceive them, simply because the world is familiar to us, and that which is familiar takes precedence. In the darkness, on the other hand, everything is equally strange and very few things take precedence, so we are more susceptible to those entities at night.

 

 

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

But, do you experience it now?  No?  You experienced it on drugs, right?  Yep.

Actually, when I look around the room, or go for a walk, I am starting to be actively mindful that all is a hallucination.

Took a nice 30 minute walk outside last night, and it was quite remarkable. All the trees, the lights, the stars... just hallucination. All of it is void. Just beaitful.

When I look at my hands these days, I know they are a hallucination. Which makes them all the more remarkable.

As you become more conscious, this will become your living reality.

Certain truths, once they are really understood, cannot be unseen, even though the peak experience goes away. The point of psychedelics is not the high, it's the understanding you come away with.

The whole point of spirituality is to experience everyday life as a hallucination. That is what you're working towards. That's what peace and happiness are. When you know that everything is unreal, you feel detached. It's an amazing thing. Like being a child again. Freedom from life, freedom from death.

I have seen that there is no external world. That would be a duality. Don't ask me how I've seen it. You can only see it a high states of consciousness. That's what the Absolute is. There is nothing that could ground an external world. Reality is far more ingenious than that.

[electroBeam]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

have seen that there is no external world.

There could be. You cannot know for certain that what you experience is true. It might feel like there's nothing beyond awareness, but that doesn't prove there isn't. 

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, electroBeam said:

There could be. You cannot know for certain that what you experience is true. It might feel like there's nothing beyond awareness, but that doesn't prove there isn't. 

It seems that way from your current paradigm. But after you encounter the Absolute, you'll realize you were wrong.

Everything is absolutely relative. You guys are failing to grasp the significance of that.

There is no standard by which to say that something is real or unreal.

To put it another way, reality itself cannot know what is or isn't real!

Any standards you have for judging reality are arbitrary and groundless. They only seem solid because you hold them to be so.

The whole point of enlightenment is that you become conscious of EVERYTHING. There is no room left for something to "hide".

There can be nothing outside Infinity.

But don't believe me. Discover it for yourself.

Don't underestimate enlightenment. You guys keep doing that.

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

It seems that way from your current paradigm. But after you encounter the Absolute, you'll realize you were wrong.

Everything is absolutely relative. You guys are failing to grasp the significance of that.

There is no standard by which to say that something is real or unreal.

To put it another way, reality itself cannot know what is or isn't real!

Any standards you have for judging reality are arbitrary and groundless. They only seem solid because you hold them to be so.

The whole point enlightenment is that you become conscious of EVERYTHING. There is no room left for something to "hide".

There can be nothing outside Infinity.

But don't believe me. Discover it for yourself.

Don't underestimate enlightenment. You guys keep doing that.

What's great about Absolute-Infinity is that it is no-thingness.  It's almost like the harder we try to grasp it, the more it dies a little.  I don't know how you teach this to somebody.  I just kind of naturally get it.  But I've always been a very intuitive person too.  I can see how psychedelics can give you some frame-works on absolute infinity, but whatever carry-over you lug with you conceptually from those experiences ain't no-thingness either.  No-thingness is no-thingness.  And that's what is beautiful about enlightenment -- holism without distinction.  The Tao is that which cannot be named.  This is the shot heard 'round the world -- if you think about it.  The most profound sentence probably ever uttered by a hairless-ape.  Oh damn!  You mean I'm the whole thing instead of this fragmentary piece of shit?   Yeah!  Enjoy it.  That's what I do.  It's a sense of being grounded to the core, but then having that come full-circle into being flighty, un-moored, creative, charged.  Both grounded and un-grounded at once.  Living on your edge and killing it, but without any ego, resistance, or deviation from Divine-Will.  To me this is what Karma Yoga gets at, and I can see how this is the only way to be outcome-independent in life.  You know what you are doing is right, there ain't no question.  Just keep moving forward and never quit on the dream.  It's a no-brainer paradoxically.  Counter-intuitively, LIFE IS SO EASY.  But the Mind-Matrix pulls the rug-out from under that fact and we don't see it.  I'm so grateful I see it now.  There is nothing complicated about life.  Just do what you're supposed to do at all times.  That's it.  And then the sneaky mind chimes in -- well, blah blah blah.  No!  damn it!  No!  That's it.  Don't get seduced and derailed by the meddling monkey-mind.  I am aware of my mind almost like it is a separate being now.  I see through all the monkey-chatter bullshit like someone asking what he did to deserve to be tormented this way in life.  Like, what the hell is this thing? -- while arms-lengthing the evil little-bugger as I'm executing my day.  And it's almost always negative, not positive by default, notice that?  What the hell's up with that, seriously?  Is life really some kind of galactic-prank?  I want my money back!  We are already in a mild-Hell with this mind-saboteur in our lives.  Why would anybody want to endure this torment of a life we live?  Who would ask to be born?  This question has always fascinated me.  Who lives a life free of suffering?  Anyone?  [crickets.]

Video on point to watch:

 

Edited August 19, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Key Elements]

You know, all this is cool - trolls. It makes me wonder where our modern day movies, songs, and other arts are coming from. Looks like they are hidden messages to tell us something spiritual. 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

47 minutes ago, Maxx said:

If everything was a hallucination, then the void would also be a hallucination. 

And awareness too.  Awareness is a bifurcation of non-dual reality.  A conceptualization.  

Saying reality is a hallucination is a conceptualization too, a belief, and is therefore existentially false.  

Edited August 19, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Soulbass]

@Leo Gura

 

Have you planned to update the episode on karma, or ego purification?

Franck Lopvet says we are living our lives to solve the equation of the divine-self. Living life is enough to solve this equation, as long as we don't block emotions, and go through events of life - instead of freezing them. He picture the impact of these events like waves after a drop in water - in our multiples & simultaneous incarnations. For example when someone break his legs on a skiing trip, it shares the weight of someone who walk on a mine during world war 2.

Is wanting to escape from this equation, creating karma?

Is enlightenment when the dreamer & the script writer are the same?

[electroBeam]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Any standards you have for judging reality are arbitrary and groundless. They only seem solid because you hold them to be so.

You're assertion here is circular. You're saying the absolute truth is everything is relative, yet that assertion is a solid proposition.

To put it concretely, how can you know that everything is relative if reality cannot know itself. Reality is Unknown with a capital U. That doesn't necessarily mean everything is relative. That's just the green stage going crazy.

Do you have any direct proof that it is relative?

 

Plus you keep saying reality is a hallucination. But normal hallucinations are not permanent. Yet idealistic reality cannot be escaped. Being will keep being no matter what. That's not a hallucination. It cannot be unreal if it cannot be escaped. Being stuck in a virtual reality game for eternity would mean that the virtual reality pixels are real. They would have to be.

[Echoes]

@electroBeam Maya or the virtual reality itself could be eternal, but no virtual perception alone is eternal in experience. Every object comes in and out of experience and is therefore not permanent. So the specific formations of pixels/maya/vg are temporary hallucinations, while the creative power to create these hallucinations could still be permanent