Your Opinions About Idealism

[momo]

@Leo Gura what do you think about idealism ?

[Joseph Maynor]

@momo You might want to elaborate more.  Idealism alone is a very broad concept.

[momo]

@Joseph Maynor biocentrism !

[Joseph Maynor]

6 hours ago, momo said:

@Joseph Maynor biocentrism !

Elaborate further.  Give us a couple of sentences.   Idealism and bicentrism mean everything and nothing without some kind of contextual stipulation, definition, or clarification.  

Edited July 24, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Alex K]

@Joseph Maynor For example I know I believe people should do more for each other than they do. And things mean more then they do. But in reality I myself won't do anything for people because I have energy/time/ego/etc. restrictions on me as a system. And what would be an exercise to define and remove such idealism from myself? I also come across a term of hopeless romantic or rose tinted glasses. Would be good to know how to identify bits of this in oneself and remove them. This is maybe like viewing the world being opposite of a "doggy doggy world"

 

For example lots of people can think that doctors or teachers "must" love helping people, "must" be nice and understanding when it is very far from reality.

 

Like in your usual films there are this pure, knights in shining armor characters.

Like you always think there would be no bureaucracy, like people would behave in an honest way without you shouting/hitting/shaming/suing them, like you would not have to bribe anyone. Like a police officer would genuinely care for your problems, etc.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Alex K

[Joseph Maynor]

22 hours ago, Alex K said:

@Joseph Maynor For example I know I believe people should do more for each other than they do. And things mean more then they do. But in reality I myself won't do anything for people because I have energy/time/ego/etc. restrictions on me as a system. And what would be an exercise to define and remove such idealism from myself? I also come across a term of hopeless romantic or rose tinted glasses. Would be good to know how to identify bits of this in oneself and remove them. This is maybe like viewing the world being opposite of a "doggy doggy world"

 

For example lots of people can think that doctors or teachers "must" love helping people, "must" be nice and understanding when it is very far from reality.

 

Like in your usual films there are this pure, knights in shining armor characters.

Like you always think there would be no bureaucracy, like people would behave in an honest way without you shouting/hitting/shaming/suing them, like you would not have to bribe anyone. Like a police officer would genuinely care for your problems, etc.

This is the battle between the Lower Self and Higher Self.  This is the key dilemma of life.  The Ego is in cahoots with the Lower Self.  The Monkey Mind is in cahoots with the Lower Self.  The Mind Matrix is in cahoots with the Lower Self.  Your job is to say no to the Lower Self and yes to the Higher Self, and that's what Personal Development and Enlightenment enable you to do.  This is what Awareness enables you to do.  This is why you hear people talk about Raising Awareness so much.  When you have high enough Awareness, all the power of the Ego, the Monkey Mind, and the Mind Matrix melt away.  But this path to Awareness is a true path: You need instruction, you need a teacher, you need to want to raise your Awareness.  And the only way for the Higher Self to take the reins of your life consistency and over the long-term is if you can jailbreak Being from the Mind.  Think of Being as a cell phone and Mind as the operating system on the Phone.  You need to jailbreak the operating system from your phone.  That's a good way to describe what the process of Personal Development and Enlightenment is.  

Videos on point to watch:

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Alex K]

@Joseph Maynor Don't you know this feeling? Like there is something magical, noble, about life, people and things. And in fact there is no meaning and people are evolutionary grouped survival machines under specifics of our planet - there is nothing "romantic" about them. 

Like when you have something and think of it as a must. Like a vaccine from different illnesses we got as infants. We default to this being status quo. But before them people died by the millions from those illnesses we would never have. And in future every infant would probably have a serum injected so that ego never consumes the mind ad every man is growing up enlightened.

For me the dearest default position is that there must be some other "noble" way to move forward other than wat Leo preaches - enslaving yourself to some purpose or aim, because to my romantic brain this is simply programming a mathematical Loss function - reducing human to a piece of software.

[Alex K]

@Joseph Maynor Yeah I've just watched that bit on. He says that what you get from not working hard is shit and rotting inside out. And missing on some higher pleasures. It seems I'm at the same moment Okay with being lazy rotting slob and not okay with that. Like I hold both things at the same time. But being a lazy slob and enduring long standing consequence is much more powerful in me right now. But I want being not okay with being lazy slob to be more powerful, because it seems more pleasant and overall appealing. Still it is weaker for some reason. I don't get this, this is so complicated. How to understand what I really want. How to purify this into single mindedness instead of fractures. wtf wtf wtf

Edited September 8, 2017 by Alex K

[Alex K]

I guess I have this deep rooted beliefs entanglement: people mean something, there is love, higher ideals of friendship, kinship, honesty, ethics, human goodness, righteousness, glory, heroism, devotion, humor, beauty, harmony, etc.

And truth is we are meaningless, relatively complex robots with programmed by evolution Loss function on survival and thriving, everything about us is inconsequential. We get together as hives of drones to accomplish survival tasks and special mechanisms call it marriage, caring for children, family, etc. and give it false feeling of higher meaning. Highest hero journey is just a somewhat more elaborate search for a software upgrade on a human robot. The existence itself has no meaning, it has an automaton like nature, even that of an endless automaton. Awareness is just another aspect of the program, just like an ego. Any meaning, like life purpose, is only a mean of programming somewhat different Loss function into this human robot software receptacle input console. Regarding this authentic self as Leo puts it - it is another fairy tail, we are mechanisms, there is no such thing as self, there is no such thing as authenticity, there is no such thing as proverbial shit, only literal one. 

Under such reality, there is actually no other course of action rather than maximizing pleasure by whatever means available to each specific human robot, like learning to be if it really does give you pleasure.

For most people I believe if they learned this, gradually becoming a meditator and residing in bliss is the only logical way of action in this world.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Alex K

[Joseph Maynor]

13 hours ago, Alex K said:

@Joseph Maynor Don't you know this feeling? Like there is something magical, noble, about life, people and things. And in fact there is no meaning and people are evolutionary grouped survival machines under specifics of our planet - there is nothing "romantic" about them. 

Like when you have something and think of it as a must. Like a vaccine from different illnesses we got as infants. We default to this being status quo. But before them people died by the millions from those illnesses we would never have. And in future every infant would probably have a serum injected so that ego never consumes the mind ad every man is growing up enlightened.

For me the dearest default position is that there must be some other "noble" way to move forward other than wat Leo preaches - enslaving yourself to some purpose or aim, because to my romantic brain this is simply programming a mathematical Loss function - reducing human to a piece of software.

There is an intuition guiding you if you have ears to hear it.  Clarify that.  Let that guide your Spirituality.  That is where your Muses live.  I've always had very strong intuition and have followed it well.  Intuition is the voice of God.  So, you have to realize that Being is *alive* and fine-tune your ears to hear it.  Intuition speaks -- find it and track it like a bloodhound. 

Videos on point to watch:

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Nahm]

@Alex K it's your illusion. 

[Alex K]

@Nahm Please help me dispel it. Outside view is much appreciated.

[Alex K]

13 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

There is an intuition guiding you if you have ears to hear it.  Clarify that.  Let that guide your Spirituality.  That is where your Muses live.  I've always had very strong intuition and have followed it well.  Intuition is the voice of God.  So, you have to realize that Being is *alive* and fine-tune your ears to hear it.  Intuition speaks -- find it and track it like a bloodhound. 

I've never said anything against intuition, actually I'm working on bringing this autopilot in my life for some time now. Exactly this prompted me to come search for the idealism topics here and it assured me to reviving this exact topic 2 month after all activity had ceased in it. Things like idealism are those impurities Leo talks about in the vid, which prevent us from fully embracing something like intuition.

Maybe you are advocating usual Leos brute force solutions - just force intuition over everything you've got going between your ears for the last decades and it'll end well. Well I do not buy it neither logically nor intuitively)

Edited September 9, 2017 by Alex K

[Sprite]

20 hours ago, Alex K said:

 

20 hours ago, Alex K said:

I guess I have this deep rooted beliefs entanglement: people mean something, there is love, higher ideals of friendship, kinship, honesty, ethics, human goodness, righteousness, glory, heroism, devotion, humor, beauty, harmony, etc.

I think there is a unique "un-robot" beauty in that my friend. Hold on to those. 

20 hours ago, Alex K said:

And truth is we are meaningless, relatively complex robots with programmed by evolution Loss function on survival and thriving, everything about us is inconsequential.

How so? I think every human action causes a ripple on this planet even if our small minded brains can't comprehend the consequences of every action we take. The earth is crying out to God from these so called "inconsequential actions". Climate change for example, a collective result of our lifestyle. Our existence is far from meaningless. I believe we are only "programmed" because we chose to be. We've been imprisoned to think in terms of the world's logic. 

 

20 hours ago, Alex K said:

And truth is we are meaningless, relatively complex robots with programmed by evolution Loss function on survival and thriving, everything about us is inconsequential. We get together as hives of drones to accomplish survival tasks and special mechanisms call it marriage, caring for children, family, etc. and give it false feeling of higher meaning.

Who says there isn't a higher meaning behind healthy connections with others? You? Leo? Why blindly just try to re-frame your thinking and understanding of the world on the teachings of regular people who live and die like all the rest of us? I could be wrong, but that "false feeling" is an empty result of us striving to subconsciously live only for ourselves, our own glory, and our own pleasure while being oblivious and resistant to anything outside of self. If that is what innate idealism is, why would you want to give that up?  

 

Quote

 

 

[Alex K]

3 hours ago, Sprite said:

Who says there isn't a higher meaning behind healthy connections with others? You? Leo? Why blindly just try to re-frame your thinking and understanding of the world on the teachings of regular people who live and die like all the rest of us? I could be wrong, but that "false feeling" is an empty result of us striving to subconsciously live only for ourselves, our own glory, and our own pleasure while being oblivious and resistant to anything outside of self. If that is what innate idealism is, why would you want to give that up?  

Not everyone would have any connections at all. It's arbitrary, not absolute. One can imagine himself anything as healthy, higher meaningful or absolute, but it is not. Yes we are ripples in the field of existence. It does not mean we are not robots with an arbitrary evolved mechanism good enough to be aware - like a phone with GPS. I guess Im an example of bad knowledge without firsthand experience. Well maybe Leo could create some video on how to purify yourself from being a desire, will, vision, etc. impotent 

Edited September 10, 2017 by Alex K

[Joseph Maynor]

10 hours ago, Alex K said:

I've never said anything against intuition, actually I'm working on bringing this autopilot in my life for some time now. Exactly this prompted me to come search for the idealism topics here and it assured me to reviving this exact topic 2 month after all activity had ceased in it. Things like idealism are those impurities Leo talks about in the vid, which prevent us from fully embracing something like intuition.

Maybe you are advocating usual Leos brute force solutions - just force intuition over everything you've got going between your ears for the last decades and it'll end well. Well I do not buy it neither logically nor intuitively)

You don't want to conceptualize things in advance.  The key is to just Be.  If you conceptualize too much in advance, you will set up too many presumptive judgments, dualities, and limiting-beliefs.  There is no you to act.  But paradoxically, you exist as Being, so the Tao that flows through you is your act.  Let Divine Creativity flow though Being, through the Tao.  Reside in the Tao, lose the small Self.  When you act without being tricked, limited, or constrained in advance by the Mind -- you will have no more perplexities.  Being lacks no knowledge.  The Tao needs nothing.  

Edited September 10, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Nahm]

16 hours ago, Alex K said:

@Nahm Please help me dispel it. Outside view is much appreciated.

Sure. My pleasure. 

Everything is illusory except the love that you are which is experiencing it. How you choose to perceive the illusion is completely up to you. How you choose to perceive it is how you will experience it. We are all creating our Perception. Where you see robots, I see love. While you discuss idealism, I am loving you and appreciating where you're at in the discovery of the illusion, and more importantly, of what you are. Your 'issue' is love. A misunderstanding that it ever should have or could have come from someone else. It doesn't work that way. You are Love, experiencing this. That's all you need to accept. If you think & talk robots, you see robots. If you let the thinking go and just honestly love, you'll see love. Start now. Enjoy the momentum build for the rest of your life, it's infinite. 

Edited September 10, 2017 by Nahm

[Spiral]

Idealism is awful.