What The Heck Are Reincarnation And Past Lives?

[Mert]

I've been seeing these subjects everywhere as I'm progressing in my spiritual work. So basically my main questions are: Who's gonna reincarnate? I know that my body is "real" but nobody owns this body. So when the body dies, its gonna be with the with the earth. So how can "I" even reincarnate. Who's gonna reincanate? And if your answer is something like "your body dies but your soul enters to another body", well what do you mean by my soul. There is no reason to believe that we have individual souls. What I understand when I hear the word soul is nothing other than one and only consciousness that is everything. So there is nothing personal about life. There is no such a thing as "my" soul. There is just soul and it is everything. I've even heard some people talking like "Your soul chooses to come this earth by it's free will and etc." and of course this seems like a complete nonsense to me. Talking about free will and shit... So eventually what I'm saying is I think there are a lot of dogmas about this topic. So what do you guys think. Is it completely nonsense? Is it a metaphor? If it's true which parts are true and which parts are dogma? What is it? I would be appreciated if somebody who studied this stuff with an open mind can answer some of my questions here.

[Prabhaker]

@Mert

At the time of death the gross body dies. The body which is made of earth and water, the body which consists of flesh, bones and marrow, drops, dies. Subsequently, the body comprised of subtle thoughts, subtle feelings, subtle vibrations, subtle filaments, remains. This body, formed of all these subtle things, along with the soul, once again proceeds on a journey, and again enters a gross body for a new birth. When a new soul enters the mother's womb, it means this subtle body enters.

In the event of death only the gross body disintegrates, not the subtle body. But with the occurrence of the ultimate death, what we call moksha, the subtle body disintegrates along with the gross body as well. Then there is no more birth for the soul. Then the soul becomes one with the whole. This happens only once. It is like a drop merging into the ocean.

Three things have to be understood. First, there is the element of the soul. When the two types of bodies -- the gross and the subtle -- come in contact with this element of the soul, both become active. We are familiar with the gross, the physical body; a yogi is familiar with the subtle body, and those who go beyond yoga are familiar with the soul.

Ordinary eyes are able to see the gross body. The yogic eye is able to see the subtle body. But that which is beyond yoga, that which exists beyond the subtle body, is experienced only in samadhi. One who goes beyond meditation attains samadhi, and it is in the state of samadhi that one experiences the divine. The ordinary man has the experience of the physical body, the ordinary yogi has the experience of the subtle body, the enlightened yogi has the experience of the divine. God is one, but there are countless subtle bodies and there are countless gross bodies.

The subtle body is the causal body; it is this body that takes on the new physical body. You see many light bulbs around here. The electricity is one, that energy is one, but it is manifesting through different bulbs. The bulbs have different bodies, but their soul is one. Similarly, the consciousness manifesting through us is one, but in the manifestation of this consciousness, two vehicles are applied. One is the subtle vehicle, the subtle body; the other is the gross vehicle, the gross body.

Our experience is limited to the gross, to the physical body. This restricted experience is the cause of all human misery and ignorance. But there are people who, even after going beyond the physical body, may stop at the subtle body. They will say, "There are an infinite number of souls." But those who go beyond even the subtle body will say, "God is one, the soul is one, Brahman is one."

When I referred to the entering of the soul, I meant that soul which is still associated with the subtle body. It means the subtle body the soul is enveloped in has not disintegrated yet. That's why we say that the soul which attains to the ultimate freedom steps out of the cycle of birth and death. There is indeed no birth and death for the soul -- it was never born, nor will it ever die. The cycle of birth and death stops with the end of the subtle body, because it is the subtle body that causes a new birth.

The subtle body is an integrated seed consisting of our thoughts, desires, lusts, longings, experiences, knowledge. This body is instrumental in taking us on our continuing journey. However, one whose thoughts are all annihilated, whose passions have all vanished, whose desires have all disappeared, who has no desire left within him, there is no place for him to go, there is no reason left for him to go anywhere. Then there is no reason for him to take birth again.

Osho~And Now, And Here

[ajasatya]

@Mert if you exam what you are, considering only your direct experience, you weren't even born.

you were not born and you won't die. nothing reincarnates. reality simply assumes another form and experiences itself through another body, just like these words are being read right now.

fear of death? pshhh
fear of eternity is the real deal. you've always been here and you'll be here forever.

[Arkandeus]

for those who don't consider dreams to be real, it seems like nonsense but to me you pretty reincarnate every night when the most of your consciousness leaves your body to do its astral travels, its exploration in realms and planes beyond this one... 

you live multiple lives every night in the multiple stages on dreaming. 
dreaming is literally your consciousness leaving your body to go do other stuff on other planes. 
so you have already a massive amount of ''reincarnations'' and ''past lives'' that you barely remember, yet you do this everyday effortlessly. 
 

[Mert]

@ajasatya That's exactly what I'm saying, "I" have never been born so how can I reincarnate. But people talk about it like "I've had a past life and I was a soldier blablabla" It seems like people are saying that they have a soul like in religions and I think that's just not true. They also say when you've reached samadhi you don't come back to earth anymore etc. So what people talk about when they talk about past lives? What are they remembering? Are they just delusional? Its seems so.

[Mert]

@Arkandeus But the problem is you don't have a consciousness. You are the consciosness. I agree with you if you say reality is not more real than the world in our dreams, but you are not leaving your body because your are not in your body. You are not going to the other "real" realms because all of it is just a hologram including your body. So I think all of those astral travel are consciousness itself messing around.

[Arkandeus]

21 minutes ago, Mert said:

@Arkandeus But the problem is you don't have a consciousness. You are the consciosness. I agree with you if you say reality is not more real than the world in our dreams, but you are not leaving your body because your are not in your body. You are not going to the other "real" realms because all of it is just a hologram including your body. So I think all of those astral travel are consciousness itself messing around.

true, what happens is what happens, whether I call it consciousness leaving the body or consciousness changing vibrational frequency and changing the hologram. 
in a sense what I mean by leaving your body is that you're not being as consciously focused on this physical reality with your current body in the center of it, you're more consciously focused.

this is my mindset

if for one let's say there is a person that views the universe and himself as a body with consciousness living in an universe with it's own consciousness, then there is another person that views itself as being one consciousness with everything, then there is another person that isn't even spiritual and sees life as a body with one single life surviving on a planet. 

to me these are all true, there is no conflict between these, for the universe is infinite even in its truths, everything is possible. and these truths can live in complete harmony
and that is our powers as creators and explorers, we not only worlds but we explore consciousness itself.
we can each explore and taste this world as we view fit, whether one considers it all one consciousness, or everyone with different consciousness or just physicality. 
it is the abundance of infinite creation and exploration that allows this. 

so for me the truth is not ''the truth'', the truth is merely a way to experience reality as you wish to experience it, if we keep that in mind, that even consciousness itself is a tool of playing we could one day come to enjoy ourselves doing amazing things. 

who knows in my far spiritual future what sort of consciousness I can enjoy? living life being conscious of 4 bodies with their unique personalities at once? living life being conscious of being the wind? being conscious of a planet? being conscious of light? being conscious of a personality living in the future and one in the past at the same time? the possibilities are endless
being conscious of all that is at once? probably not for the next billion years
 

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Arkandeus

[ajasatya]

1 hour ago, Mert said:

So what people talk about when they talk about past lives? What are they remembering? Are they just delusional? Its seems so.

be careful though. don't assume you've seen enough for Reality is an Absurdity.

even though it has nothing to do with enlightenment, which is Truth realization and Truth embodiment, i've seen people access some kind of universal memory with the help of ayahuasca rituals. they're able to attain wisdom and knowledge that goes beyond their individual lives. a raw example of this is a brazilian man called mestre gabriel, who seemed to be able to access the memory of a vassal of the solomon king in order to (re)create the religion união do vegetal. actually, to be more precise, he said that he was the reincarnation of that vassal. and when i contemplate the greatness of his wisdom and the beauty of the união do vegetal - with its thousands of happy families -, i humbly ask myself who i am to say that he was mistaken.

and not just that. i myself have experienced union with people in the thought level. it feels like i'm able to think/feel what others are thinking/feeling.

if you're really willing to investigate such questions, don't simply use your head. use your entire body and throw yourself in the world to have true first hand experiences. there's no other way to heal your thirst.

Edited July 20, 2017 by ajasatya

[WaterfallMachine]

20 hours ago, Mert said:

@ajasatya That's exactly what I'm saying, "I" have never been born so how can I reincarnate. But people talk about it like "I've had a past life and I was a soldier blablabla" It seems like people are saying that they have a soul like in religions and I think that's just not true. They also say when you've reached samadhi you don't come back to earth anymore etc. So what people talk about when they talk about past lives? What are they remembering? Are they just delusional? Its seems so.

When they say you've been never born, it has a different meaning to what you think it means. Enlightenment is like a carpet. Different abstract patterns can appear and can seem distinct from another ; but all these patterns are just one carpet. So you've never been born because you're not actually separated from the rest of the universe. And the soul is more like a particular part of that carpet. 

This seems pretty crazy. But I thought the same. Check out The Holographic Universe or Materialism is Baloney to find the logical arguments and evidence you're looking for. Leo's book list reviews have more books like these if you want. I recommend people like this to go read books like that first as I don't think much of anything else can get you to open up to it. Leo has some epistemological videos with logical arguements on these if you check his enlightenment videos.

Another thing to try is to try to google how to have a past life regression. I tried the one on wikihow. When I first tried it, I didn't actually believe it would work so it wasn't a placebo. And if it was just the result of my imagination, why didn't it work outside the technique? During the technique, the images flowed vividly, effortlessly, until one sudden stop somewhere along the way. Outside it I was straining my mind to think of ideas for a story like that and to imagine pictures as vividly ; but it was hard. When I tried to test if it was the relaxation (Studies say relaxation increases creativity), it didn't work either. I thought I was crazy, until I googled one of the words in a foreign language and it actually translated to actual words online. And in my shock, I realized there really must be something to all this.

I can't of course prove that to you. Only you can explore that yourself. In Actualized.org, remember we're not just trying to change what you believe. We're asking you to challenge your criteria for what makes something worth believing?. And to explore the truth of what makes something true is to consider all sides. It's like trying to understand a country just by talking to people who live on the north. How can you have a complete understanding if you don't understand people from the south?

Good luck.

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by WaterfallMachine

[Mert]

@WaterfallMachine I've bought The Holographic Universe the other day and I'm very excited to read it. Of course I'm not interested in belief systems, I'm open minded about this topic, that's why I'm asking questions. To be honest I'm not satisfied with the answers and that's okay. First hand experience is what is important. I will try to do these methods to experience past lifes, but I will say that I think there is no reason to believe that we have indiviual souls but I will still keep researching.

[Mert]

20 hours ago, ajasatya said:

if you're really willing to investigate such questions, don't simply use your head. use your entire body and throw yourself in the world to have true first hand experiences. there's no other way to heal your thirst.

Yeah, that's what I'm after right now. Do you have any recommendation? A youtube video or something?

[WaterfallMachine]

13 minutes ago, Mert said:

Yeah, that's what I'm after right now. Do you have any recommendation? A youtube video or something?

I go to http://m.wikihow.com/Remember-Your-Past-Lives for a short and simple past life regression technique. But I use it mostly because  I find it easy to enter a state of relaxation quickly.

For more longer ones, you can simply enter Past Life Regressions Hypnosis on YouTube and there are many to choose from. I haven't explored this topic for very long so I don't think I can give you the really juicy links. But it's a start. There seems to be less people to talk about this topic well here as compared to other spirituality forums I've seen. So you might want to ask from other forums. I went to spiritualforums before. Maybe check it out?

Haha. Well, it's good that you're open minded. Not many people can say the same thing. .

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by WaterfallMachine

[ajasatya]

9 minutes ago, Mert said:

Yeah, that's what I'm after right now. Do you have any recommendation? A youtube video or something?

do not play safe. you're already asking for an youtube video. that's a petty way to experience Truth.

dance with shamans below the full moon. spend a month in a buddhist temple. go to vipassana retreats. transform your body in an yoga teaching course. meet thousands of different people.

[AstralProjection]

@Mert We are multidimensional beings. So basically it's your essence that reincarnates, not your ego, and your current self as you know it to be. But your underlying essence is what reincarnates.

[Mert]

@AstralProjection But my underlying essence is everything, it's everything that has ever existed and everything that is going to exist. My essence is your essence. There is no "my essence". That means my essence doesn't reincarnate. That means everybody reincarnates as everything every milisecond.

[Leo Gura]

@Mert Nonduality and souls are not necessarily mutually exclusive. No more so than nonduality and bodies are.

It isn't hard to conceive that a human organism is constructed not only out of physical matter, but the organism is rooted much more deeply into the fabric of reality, at levels which sit below physical reality, or "our universe", or our current life, such that even if our entire universe is annihilated, remnants of the organism you currently think of as yourself may remain in some more fundamental substrata of reality.

Yes, everything is nondual, but that doesn't really say jack about how reality is specifically structured and how organisms work.

The most advanced and hardcore mystics -- people who've spent 10,000-50,000 hours in meditation -- talk about past lives. Are they just being cute? Are they just deluded? That's a rather arrogant and dismissive stance to take, IMO. In my experience, when a person like that tells you something about reality, you should consider it very seriously, even if it first sounds stupid. Which is not to say you should believe them blindly.

[Mert]

@Leo Gura But Leooo, so are you saying there could be non-physical organisms? I've actually never thought about that. I think my core assumption was if something is not in our perception, then it is literally nothingness. But not-perception is still a thing right? So it's not nothingness. And if reality is absolute then it can contain individual souls that had past lives, human egos and pizza galaxies where everything is made out of pizza. Damn, that actually makes sense in a very weird way. But eighter way one part of the dream wouldn't be more spiritual than living as a human ego or an ant. They should be equally ignorant from the nondual perspective.

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by Mert

[Mert]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Mert

The most advanced and hardcore mystics -- people who've spent 10,000-50,000 hours in meditation -- talk about past lives. Are they just being cute? Are they just deluded? That's a rather arrogant and dismissive stance to take, IMO. In my experience, when a person like that tells you something about reality, you should consider it very seriously, even if it first sounds stupid. Which is not to say you should believe them blindly.

Yes! that's why I've started to investigate all this. First I was shocked. I use to thing that it is some hocus pocus of the nonduality but now I just don't know.

[Soulbass]

What i know is that past & future lives are simultaneous because time is not linear and exist only from our perspective.

It's said that we can have several simultaneous incarnations on earth, and if we met one of them it's instant enlightenment (it could be an animal, or another human).

I'm experimenting with past lives regression hypnosis on youtube, I got detailed results. Is it just mind, or what? Maybe imagination is not what it seems to be. From where does our ideas come from? Is it our's? Are our lives our's? What forces influence us?

Also, it's said that our past/future lives explains personality traits, and when we'r working on ourselves, it influence/solve problems in other's lives.

The polarity/duality thing suggest that somebody can have very opposite traits in life (Adolf Hitler could be Amma).

Edited July 21, 2017 by Soulbass

[AstralProjection]

Expert investigates 10-year-old’s reincarnation claims

www.today.com/video/today/57120459

Edited July 21, 2017 by AstralProjection