Puer Aeternus Part 1 Puer Aeternus is the Jungian archetype of someone who remains an eternal child. It refers to someone who remains stuck in adolescence and is essentially developmentally stunted. Dr. K describes this archetype over two different videos at length. I have taken notes on characteristics of this archetype by watching one of his videos. I also decided to add my own commentary whether it applies to my past self, my present self, other people I have encountered in my life, or other patterns I have observed.   Tends to be charming / charismatic and childlike. They can be smart, quick witted and likable. As a result, some people can be easily impressed by them. They have a lot of potential and have bursts of creativity. While they may have a good start, their ability to execute and stick through things is lacking.  They generally do not like sports which requires patience and long training.  They have a hero complex An example that is laid out is this guy who decided to go through yogic training, learn to sleep outside, and go without food just because he doesn't like carrying the weight of a rucksack while hiking. He would rather do the absolute most than to do the mundane things that require responsibility.  They can be heroic and magnificent, but they cannot be ordinary. They have this ego where they want to be grandiose but not do basic tasks. This causes them to be stuck in life.  I feel like this encapsulates what I was like when I was in high school. I was relatively sociable once I got past the social anxiety. I was at the top of my class, creative, and had quick come backs to things. And I was pretty self aware for my age as well. I had a lot of adults say that they saw that I had a bright future ahead. But I did suck at sticking through things and having a regular sense of discipline. I could do an entire course's worth of work or memorize a shit ton of information just because I didn't want to do the basic task of taking notes, noting things down in a planner, or allocating my time effectively instead of leaving things to the last minute.  I feel like I notice this hero complex phenomenon show up among a bunch of leftists that idealize revolution. Like they want something big to happen rather than do the boring work of organizing and phone banking.  They don't like conventional situations. They ask deep questions and go straight for truth. They hate small talk. They're big talkers but they cannot show up for the little stuff in life.  This felt like a description of my 14 year old self who fell into the tumblr rabbit hole of *normal people scare me* and *I don't like small talk, I want to talk about something deep like the mysteries of the universe and space.* I think I also went through a similar phase in my late teens when I was in a constant state of existential crisis lol. I learned that wasn't the way when I started to become the therapist friend and I started to trauma bond with people. That's when I learned the importance of small talk and showing up for the little things because of how it builds to the larger things in a more healthy and sustainable pace.  This also reminds me of the leftists who talk about "direct action" rather than slowly building up the momentum and actually putting in the work to actually have political influence and affect outcomes.  They have big dreams but when they try to live life, they're severely disappointed because they put life on a pedestal and they cannot put up with drab, monotony, boredom, or just everyday life. They might have a vision of writing a book for example but when they sit down to do it, they cannot get through the actual, sometimes boring work of actually writing the book.  I have written about this in a previous post about a year ago. I was going to post a quote from it but I think the whole post is about this very thing. So I'm just going to link it and also summarize some key points instead. Basically, I think I had a more simplistic understanding of life and the way things were going to turn out at 17, especially pre COVID based on my expectations of adulthood at the time. I felt like I could do anything given that I was at the top of my class, I was sociable, and I was creative. I had a bit of a grandiose attitude of what careers and adulthood was going to look like. And I guess at the time of writing this, there was a part of me that wished that I could return back to the naiveity from when I was 17 where I didn't know how deep systemic issues were, where I didn't know about COVID and how that was going to impact things going forward.  I feel like my corporate job was good at taking this tendency out of me. Because I still need to show up and fulfill my responsibilities even if I'm feeling off physically, mentally, and emotionally. I'm still trying to find a good balance of pushing through vs taking a break but I do think that this job has helped me build my discipline muscle and that has seeped into other areas of my life.  The cycle is as follows: They have a vision in life (they're filled with excitement and potential) > they engage in life > it gets boring, gruelling, and disappointing or something comes up > they get dejected and lose motivation  The puer aeternus can work hard and can even work long hours for a stretch of time but what they cannot do is work on a dreary morning where one has to kick themselves into work.  This was very much me in the earlier part of college. I had the capability to work hard, pull all nighters, and cram at the last minute but I couldn't maintain a steady sense of discipline. I felt like that came on when I was like 21/22 as my frontal lobe began forming more lol.  Romantically they're looking for "the image of the mother- the image of the perfect woman who will give everything to a man and who is without any shortcomings- is sought in every woman. He is looking for a mother goddess, so that each time he is facinated by a woman, he has later to discover that she is an ordinary human being. Once he has been intimate with her, the whole facination vanishes and he turns away disappointed, only to project the image onto one woman after another." Basically, they're trying to find the perfect partner, they find someone, that person inevitably disapoints them with their humanness, and then they break things off to then find the perfect person again.  This reminds me of the guys who basically wants a mother for a girlfriend- someone who will cook, clean, do basic house tasks and do basic adult responsibilites around the house that they never learned to do for themselves- but they can fuck them as well. And then, the moment she shows him that she's a person with needs, boundaries, a personality etc. he loses interests and tries to find another person. to continue the cycle with.  This also reminds me of the people who have Bumble brainrot (platonically or romantically) where they don't try to develop healthy communication and conflict resolution skills. Instead, they just ghost or cut the other person off because the next person, the perfect person, is just one swipe away. The thing is, even in healthy relationships, you're bound to encounter some kind of conflict and over time, people you have known for years are bound to annoy you at one point or another. And if it's a little annoying, you learn to self regulate. But if it's something that is really bothering you, you learn to have those difficult and awkward conversations so that y'all can work things out. I'm also glad that Dr. K later talks about dating apps in the video.  They fear losing their potential. They have this notion that if they find the right circumstances, the right environment, the right job, that they can become superhuman. But the problem is that when they try to engage in life, the fantasy falls through and they cannot put in the actual work even if they're incredibly smart, creative, charismatic, etc. Becuase committing to something and making a choice means losing the potential of everything else.  I feel like this was me in high school when I was trying to apply to colleges. I thought that if I went to the right place, that I would flourish and become this superhuman kind of person with a crazy work ethic. I was pretty disappointed with the college I actually ended up going to. But looking back, I don't think it would have made much of a difference in my educational attainment. I still got a good education and I still fell on my face regarding various things that came up.  I feel like I dealt with that fear of losing my potential when I graduated college and things didn't go as planned. I had this image of myself and how college was going to go and my whole experience deviated from that. It was difficult and I had to work through that emotionally. And sure, it came with a lot of negatives (imposter syndrome and the such) but I think it helped me be more present and realistic for my expecations of my self and my life going forward.  Dr. K describes some examples of the language he has encountered regarding this. "Oh, what should I major in? But if I major in this or if I date this person, if I major in this, what if it's the wrong choice? What if it doesn't work out? What if I don't like it? And they're so paralyzed by being trapped in the drab existence of reality. Like oh my god, if I have to debase myself to become a pleb, make small talk in a water cooler, in a cubicle, as a sheeple, I cannot tolerate that at all. They are pathologically incapable of making a commitment or making a sacrifice."  They're terrified of losing options and feeling trapped in making commitments and accepting responsibilities.  This causes them to feel like they aren't living life because they're kind of in the void. They're living a marginal life because they're swimming around in this transitional / exploratory place or they disengage and go back to their fantasy world. They have a bunch of half finished projects and things they have started, but nothing has come to fruition.  I think committing to my partner and to my current job has helped with this fear of commitment. Sure, it isn't perfect but it is a good start. And while I cannot say that having surface level conversations and relationships with my coworkers and doing menial tasks is the epitome of fulfillment, I can appreciate these things for what they are and find beauty in that. I also think that this job has helped me deal with my executive dysfunction by the nature of the role that I'm in and I've found more appreciation over the little things in my life from the stability that this job has given me.  Another cycle they get caught in is the following: They have a fantasy life > They fail to commit > They get freaked out because the possibilities are cut off > leads them to be in a perpetual loading zone as life continues to pass them by > Even if they don't make a committment, life forces them to choose (they might be forced into a job they hate and think is beneath them) > they half ass things > the thing is less than their fantasy > then they long for their fantasy > but there is no initiation because they cannot commit > they go back to the loading zone.  I'm a little guilty of this. I think in relation to my job, life forced me to choose. I tend to half ass things at work because part of me thinks I'm too good for corporate and increasing shareholder value and instead I want to preserve my energy for more meaningful things. I wrote about in my linked post above on how I sometimes long for the fantasy of adulthood that my 17 year old self had. But thankfully, this doesn't stop me from committing or taking initiation and I don't go back into the loading zone. I think this is something I want to reflect on more.  Common beliefs:  In the perfect circumstances, my perfection will come out. The road to my dreams isn't 10-15 years of long drab work that won't come into fruition. I just need to find the right job, the right friends, the right partner etc.  I feel like R and N are examples of this. They kind of have this view that if they have the right investments that they're going to get rich instead of putting money into a 401k and watch that gradually grow. Instead, they're crashing out over Tesla stocks lol. These two also bought houses very prematurely instead of saving over the course of years and now they're struggling. R is especially guilty of this. He has that delusional white man tendency where he overestimates his abilities at times. Don't get me wrong, he is competent. But applying for and jumping into a managerial position 6 months into a job and 6 months out of college is delusional. I'm not here to say that tenure is everything, but it is something because there are some things in a job that can only be picked up over time even if you have the skill set right now.  They blame their circumstances rather than taking responsibility. They tend to blame their prior selves. Rather than correct their mistakes, they blame their prior selves and are like *oh if I didn't make xyz decision, I wouldn't be here* but they aren't going to make the right decision today.  They think that they missed the boat on xyz skill/ milestone/ life stage and that there's nothing you can do about it. (think *oh I never had a relationship in high school, I'm so behind, I'm 25 with no experience, no one will love me, it's too late for me etc.* They'd rather do that than put in the boring work to catch up) I will admit, I'm sometimes guilty of this train of thought. However, I allow myself to grieve and then after that I come up with an action plan to address this.  They have an image of themselves that is fragile. They might point to a physical of mental health thing as something that is debilitating. And sure, it might have some validity, but they don't follow up with *well, what are you going to do with that situation?* They use this as a excuse rather than a reason. They'd rather do some psychedelics and say they're cured or they would rather just stay in the suffering instead of doing the hard work and menial tasks required to overcome the situation. My roommate in college was like this in terms of their physical and mental health. Don't get me wrong, they were dealing with some serious shit. But they do have a tendency to moap and analyze all of the systemic reasons for their ills instead of addressing things. They did balance me out since I'm in the opposite end where sometimes I put too much pressure on myself to take responsibility. I do like how we balanced each other out.  I feel like I have seen this pattern A LOT on this forum where a lot of guys would rather do psychedelics or some super human kind of self inquiry instead of doing the basic work to deal with their problems. Spiritual bypassing is not cute lol.  They have a defensive arrogance where they have an inferiority/superiority complex. They have trouble finding the right kind of job or partner because nothing is ever quite right or quite what they wanted. There's always a hair in the soup.  They feel superior to people even though they see that themselves as below them. Think of the incel who wants to date a 10/10 woman and not look at a woman who is just average even though they're lonely. Think of the person who is amazing at video games and loves to dunk on noobs but won't write a paper on theology in the 13th centrury because the paper is beneath them.  I think that a lot of the problems I have at work feels like a hair in the soup. Sure, I don't like my job and I don't like the shenanigans of upper management, but I do have good opportunities here and I know the job market is rough at the moment. I'm not saying all of this to brush off the toxicity that is there in my work place but I am saying that I'm not just gonna quit because there is a handful of things going wrong.  I also feel like the fact that my partner isn't my type is the hair in the soup while the fact that I have a really solid, happy relationship, that is the soup itself. Sure I want to explore and get a few things out of my system by temporarily opening the relationship, but depending on how conversations go, if he's not ok with that, it's not the end of the world. I'm not willing to sacrifice my good relationship for the sake of sexual fulfillment. I'm not trying to say that sexual fulfillment and dating someone you consider your type isn't important, but I am saying that it isn't important TO ME as much in the grand scheme of things.  There are a lot of areas of my life that gives me fulfillment but sexual fulfillment isn't at the top of the list in regards to how it contributes to my overal satisfaction in life.  The idea of wasting time is so terrifying for them that they never make a commitment. But then, not making commitment causes them to waste more time, thus leading them to the life they were afraid of in the first place.  Thank god I didn't fall into this trap. I did encounter people who shortly after graduating they found themselves in the failure to launch category. I also had professors tell me that you might not find the perfect opportunity after graduation but doing something as opposed to nothing is better because even if you go with a less than perfect opportunity, you will still get some experience and some footing to find something better afterwards.  Another fantasy they have is that there is an abrupt force that comes into your life that will force you to grow or die (because they cannot motivate themselves in a normal situation so they need something dramatic to push them into action). Either, I'm going to be something and be a hero, or I'll be dead (because they'd rather be dead than ordinary).  I'm guilty of this. Sometimes, I fantasize about getting laid off so that it will force me to apply and get another job quickly.  How do you fix this:  Put in the boring work. Make sacrifices. Make commitments. Do that even if the gurantee of the work paying off is not present when you start the work.  An example of the puer aeternus is the person who says "I want to work at a company, but I don't want to get an entry level position. I want a strategic position where my ideas will be respected." They cannot pay a cost without a gurantee of a gain. Focus on the cost rather than the gain. Focus on the reality instead of the fantasy.  I think a lot of boomers had this mentality because for them, a college degree was a fast track to getting a really cushy job that wasn't entry level. And the fact that our generation cannot do the same was like hitting a brick wall for both generations to varying extents. I also had a moment when I first got my corporate job where I was like *I got this complicated ass degree only to be sending emails? I could have done this when I just graduated high school tf?* I feel like college can sometimes put work life and entry level jobs on a pedestal and make them more complicated that they are to where you feel delusional enough to think you're worthy of a strategic position right off the bat. But the truth it, most organizations are complicated and it takes time to learn the ins and outs of various departments and create the professional connections and competency to get a role like that.  Don't be afraid of "settling." Focus on the loss of the possibilities and potential and work through that. Stop blaming yourself for falling behind in life and expecting some outlandish thing to fix things for you overnight and put in the gruelling work.  I think my corporate job helped me not feel behind in life because I was in a mixed age environement where I wasn't just in a bubble with people my own age I could compare myself to. I think this job also helped me make peace with a sense of monotony and the skills that are built from that as well.  Recognize that your real issues are internal. The issue isn't that you need to work towards a promotion, the issue is that you need to learn to grind.  There is a tendency to focus on the heroic forms of growth. Dr. K uses the biohacking community as an example where instead of eating generally healthy and exercising, they need to biohack, optimize, and get more with less. Instead of doing what normal people do, they want to find a really specific protocol with special technology to create a special kind of health. Just eating basic foods and a little exercise here and there basically gets you to 95% of the path there. You might need an extra vitamin D supplement or something for the remaining 5% but you don't need to overcomplicate things. But that's the real question, why do you need to overcomplicate things and go to fantastical lengths?  I know the video was mainly geared towards men but I do think that this applies to women in the wellness influencer space as well. Like Sydney, no, I don't need a 12 step skincare routine, expensive facials once a month, and botox. Most of us will be just fine with a face wash, moisturizer, sunscreen, and maybe tretonoin. No I don't need greens powder, a very specific diet, 30k steps, and a work out plan that only makes sense if you're unemployed in order to lead a healthy life. I just need to ensure that I'm eating enough food, get 20-30 min of movement in, drink water and maybe take a supplement. And sure, these healthy habits MIGHT cause you to lose weight for some people. But for a lof of people, they're going to get healthier but they won't lose weight. And that is alright. Not everyone is meant to live up to the fantasy of looking like a Victoria Secret model. Just because you don't look like a model becuse you have basic healthy habits doesn't mean that there is something wrong with your body and that you should starve yourself, or have a very elaborate wellness routine.  There are people who, no matter what job you put them in, they do pretty well because their work ethic is right. There are people who have many successful relationships because they have good relationships skills/ good attachment style. Stop hunting for the right circumstance and start showing up as the right person.  I feel like this is me with my relationships. Sure I was more of a late bloomer romantically but I think that I'm capable of being friends with a wide range of people in terms of their background and personality. And because I have a track record of good friends, that has helped me gain the relationship skills to be a good partner as well.  I think this is me at work as well. I know that I have mentioned that I have a tendency to half ass things at work but I would say overall I have a decent work ethic relative to my coworkers. I feel like I'm half assing things but my boss is pretty happy with my quality of work. And I am proud of myself for excelling in something that I don't have a lot of passion in and that I show up to and fulfill the responsibilities of regardless of how I'm feeling that day.   I met a guy like this in high school. Sure like everyone, he had subjects that he was better at and worse at, but he made it a point to excel everything and have a consistent work ethic. I'm not sure what he's doing right now, but knowing him, I'm sure he's doing well in whatever industry he has chosen to go into.  Focus on small things. Do the little habits. Do the laundry, the dishes, etc. Be a normal adult lol.  Alpha male podcast bros and hustle culture accounts LOOOVE to prey on people who don't want to basic small things and instead want to escape into the fantasy of like a guy in a sports car surrounded by women in bikinis. And then they say that you can get all of this if you just buy their course. These guys also shit on normal people who have working class jobs or have regular 9-5s. This reminds me of the alpha male morning routine where this guy started his morning at liek 3am and basically painted this fantasy of being super productive, aesthetic, and on the grind. But in the end of the video, it was his girlfriend who was doing the fundamental work of making him breakfast lol.  I also found myself thinking about Ramit Sethi, a youtuber who makes videos on money management and improving your relationship with money, and how he hates the finance bros that overcomplicates money to where regular people are scared to learn about financial literacy. He also hates on how there are lot of people in the financial space that sells this idea that you cannot build a decent amount of wealthy if you're not an entrepreneur and he has a good amount of advice for people with regular 9-5 jobs.  A more feminine coded version of this phenomenon is the woman who gets pregnant because of the fantasy of motherhood and how people put mothers on a pedestal but they don't want to do the basic shit of caring for the kid and ends up being negligent. They would rather coach their 3 year old to say something profound for 4 hours so that they can post that for views have people say what a great mother they are instead of changing diapers. They party, get plastic surgery, hold on to their youth, become influencer moms, instead of putting in the work of parenting.  This reminds me of Huda from Love Island season 7. She kind of uses motherhood as a kink of sorts and it's really not adding up how she has the time to be wilding out the way that she is while having a kid at home.  This also makes me think of the men who like the fantasy and prestige around being a husband and father but don't actually want to be either of those things. And then once they have a kid, all of the childcare falls on the shoulder of the woman and then they either work long hours or take on hobbies like golfing that takes them away from home so they can avoid their responsibilities and because they secretly hate their wife and kids. I personally haven't met people like this, but my friends in more high pressure jobs have.  I also think that my own mother fell into this category as well. I think she liked the idea of motherhood much more than the reality and she projected a lot of fantasies on to how she wanted me to turn out. And since I fell short of that, as one does because they are human, she's often disappointed in me and while I do think she loves me, I don't think she likes me all that much. But don't also go so far the other direction to where you kill the child within you and you get stuck in the grind.  The child within you isn't a bad thing. You need to have a balance with your inner child and discipline them.  Creativity, spontaneity, playfulness is still important.  I feel like this is something I had to learn last year. Once you get to working, there is no extended breaks for you to look forward to. Instead, you need to actively create things to look forward to and create your own traditions so that life doesn't run together and feel like a blob. Also, take your PTO.  Chatter questions:  "If someone is stuck in the classic puer aeternus state because society provides no rites of passage or stable adult roles, is it really their fault?"  Does society provides no meaningful rites of passage? Are they all gone? Are there rites of passages that aren't meaningful? What's the difference between an empty rite of passage and a meaningful one? How do you define a rite of passage?  It doesn't matter if it's your fault, it's your responsibility. Sure, these are decaying in society, but you need to craft meaning for yourself. Asking if it's your fault is the wrong question. The right question is what are you going to do about it? "Do I just need to force myself to do boring stuff."  You need to ask why you need to force yourself in the first place. Deal with your issues with your motivation around boring stuff (hero complex, issues around commitment, fantasy of what could have been because you started to late, the fantasy of holding things at a pedestal, convenience/ efficiency culture etc.)  This is something that I feel like I have been indirectly contemplating.  "How does one get better at making sacrifices even for small choices? Sometimes I get stuck in this loop of trying to make a choice and it's so exhausting."  Look at the sacrifice at multiple angles. Ask why you're such a miser with your resources and why you can't spend your resources. Why can't you afford to make a wrong choice?  I think I had this problem more so when I was in high school/ college because I was afraid of falling behind from my peers and making mistakes that could cost me years of my life. I was afraid of that because I wanted to be happy and successful quick without struggling as much with dumb problems like my peers. Looking back, I do see the superiority complex that this reeks of. Because why am I exempt from making a couple dumb mistakes in my youth? Dumb mistakes are part of the age appropriate learning process. Why am I thinking so highly of myself to where I'm demanding perfection from myself? It's a shame that back then I felt like I had to have everything together because I didn't have the safety net to mess up, but while I used to look at that as a positive, now I'm seeing that it was kind of messed up.  "What are some questions to ask yourself about your inability to close doors?" What's the problem with losing this possibility? Why do you need a perfect life? Why can't you have an ordinary life and why do you look down on it? For the puer aeternus, progress isn't the goal. They want a sense of completion, a sense of victory, a triumph rather than incremental movement. Start to see progress is enough and build a sense of contentment. They want pleasure and safety, not contentment. Because mad geniuses are never content, they are consumed by their brilliance. They want grandiosity, not ordinary existance.  I remember in another Dr. K video on how he describes FOMO as a form of greed because the one thing you chose for yourself isn't enough and you feel like you need everything. So it's like, if you have a bunch of interests and you don't want to just choose one, why? If you can find joy in so many things, why is choosing one and sticking to it so scary?  "I watch self help content but I cannot apply it. Why?"  Self help content can give the illusion of progress without you doing anything. It's cognitively intense at times so you end up taking a break. But then you don't do anything. Don't ask that question to the content. Ask that question to yourself.