Someone here

Why does pain exist?

89 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

On 27/04/2024 at 11:34 PM, Someone here said:

Go look it up in the dictionary. 

You take a look.

Does "bad" come with the sensation?

Are you comparing the sensation to other parts of your body?

Quote

 Could be Any part . Tooth ache ..stomach ache ..testicles ache ..etc

Where does it start and stop? 

What about degree? Which criteria is used for determining degree of pain?

Quote

Yup.

It is more fundamental than that. Emotions such as anger and fear can be broken down into components, while pain can't.

Edited by UnbornTao

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Posted (edited)

Remembering past pain and resisting the possibility of future pain are unnecessary activities that generate more pain on top of whatever you're experiencing now.

Edited by UnbornTao

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1 minute ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

And how does brooding over this type of stuff 24/7 make it better?

Well..as I said in OP I want to live a happy life . And it seems to me that happiness is impossible in this world . I mentioned some of the unperfect stupidity in God's design of this world.  

So..I simply want to understand why we must experience pain? What is the existential role that pain plays in God's design? I mean come the fuck on...God is all powerfull and can spawn endless flowery heavens in a snap if he wants yet he chooses this hell-hole called this world?..something is wrong. 

Even when everything seems like we should be happy.. we are not


"life is not a problem to be solved ..its a mystery to be lived "

-Osho

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9 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Does "bad" come with the sensation?

Of course.  

10 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Where does it start and stop? 

What about degree? What criteria is it used for determining that?

It starts in the body part which is hurt .

11 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

It is more fundamental than that. Emotions such as anger and fear can be broken down into components, while pain can't.

This supports my side not yours .


"life is not a problem to be solved ..its a mystery to be lived "

-Osho

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2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Well..as I said in OP I want to live a happy life . And it seems to me that happiness is impossible in this world . I mentioned some of the unperfect stupidity in God's design of this world.  

So..I simply want to understand why we must experience pain? What is the existential role that pain plays in God's design? I mean come the fuck on...God is all powerfull and can spawn endless flowery heavens in a snap if he wants yet he chooses this hell-hole called this world?..something is wrong. 

Even when everything seems like we should be happy.. we are not

You already got the answer to your question. Case closed, move on.

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Posted (edited)

Let's approach the following as a contemplation exercise.

On 27/04/2024 at 11:55 PM, Someone here said:

Of course. 

How so? Where does it say it has to be that way objectively?

Is the pain of having your arm cut off equally bad as the pain of pinching your leg? Is the pain of stretching your body bad?

Quote

It starts in the body part which is hurt.

That doesn't help us pinpoint exactly where it starts and ends.

It may be a loose sensation with no clear boundaries, that you then compare to other body part that is "neutral", less painful, or pleasurable.

Quote

This supports my side not yours .

We're questioning here. I'm saying that pain may not belong in the same domain as emotions. If it's a feeling, what's the feeling about?

Locate a physical sensation that you say is painful and contemplate what it is: What's painful in your experience? Locate the distinction "pain." Show me where pain is as if I wanted to buy it.

Edited by UnbornTao

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@Someone here

On 26.4.2024 at 0:55 AM, Bazooka Jesus said:

Endless joy without the contrast of pain would be endless monotony.

Ever noticed how every amazing thing in your life just becomes "meh" once you get used to it? Well, that's how reality works. The quality of any experience is always relative to the quality of other experiences; nothing is ever absolutely good ot bad.

Take your own life as an example. Compared to the life of a starving slave working himself to death in a coal mine and getting whipped 24/7, your cushy life is pure heaven on earth; and yet to you, it seems normal, mediocre, boring, nothing special, perhaps even dull and depressing, because you're used to it. You take your ability to walk, talk, see and hear for granted, and yet someone whose legs are paralyzed, who is mute, who is blind and/or deaf would cry tears of joy if he or she had the opportunity to spend a single day inside your skin. See how it is all relative?

There is no joy without pain, no white without black, no up without down. No contrast = no experience of reality. It's as simple as that.

Nuff said.

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Because God wanted to know something other than Highest Heavens.


T-20.IV.8:1-8 You may wonder how you can be at peace when, while you are in time, there is so much that must be done before the way to peace is open. Perhaps this seems impossible to you. But ask yourself if it is possible that God would have a plan for your salvation that does not work. Once you accept His plan as the one function that you would fulfill, there will be nothing else the Holy Spirit will not arrange for you without your effort.

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Posted (edited)

obviously there is always a solution to every problem. Only limited minds accept limits as inevitable. If there was no pain, you could have auto regenerative bodies to compensate for any self-destructive "curiosity". Just think a little outside of the box and all bullshit dissolves. If you knew the storyline of this world you would know this world is a "trap" spanning both "physical" and astral dimensions. That's the game.

Pain could be tuned to be less harmful than it is and still produce the positive effects that come from it. Such as the thrill of a battle or bodybuilding.

Edited by strangelooper

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Albert Einstein said the most important question you can ask is:  "do we live in a friendly universe or not?"

This is closely related to your question. 

The answers to these questions have huge ramifications, so one must answer them carefully!

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Without pain, half of the experiences you can have in this particular universe and it's rules will be gone.

You can't  have compassion without suffering.

You won't have doctors, soldiers, spiritual gurus, and most importantly the desire to help others and feel fulfillment from it.

You won't have the journey of finding freedom from suffering.

You won't have more than 90% of the movies, video games, books and all the creative content you consume without the possibility of suffering.

Think about it, and you might find suffering to be a necessity, atleast for a short period.

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No one has answered anything . My question goes much deeper than that. 

So far all I'm hearing is "without pain you can't appreciate joy " cliche in different ways to articulate . As if this is a limitation upon God.  As if God can't create a world better than this with zero pain and max joy .

Results like these don't belong in the resemay of a supreme being . If that's the best God can do then I'm not impressed. 


"life is not a problem to be solved ..its a mystery to be lived "

-Osho

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3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

As if God can't create a world better than this with zero pain and max joy .

You don't need a god to create a world without suffering, humans themselves would find ways to erase physical and mental pain completely in a few hundred years. But, then they wouldn't have much to do and might even create pain to themselves as a hobby. Who knows, selling diseases for a price in the future might become a good business idea.

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Results like these don't belong in the resemay of a supreme being . If that's the best God can do then I'm not impressed. 

This is just a very small portion of God's love, a very small lifespan compared to the entirety of the God's lifespan. The best thing you can do right now is find ways for contentment in this life, and spirituality is one of the ways to do so.

Who knows, maybe you will get a life full of joy and zero suffering in your next life, once you are grateful for and contented with this life.

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5 minutes ago, An young being said:

You don't need a god to create a world without suffering, humans themselves would find ways to erase physical and mental pain completely in a few hundred years.

1-what makes you sure of this ?

2-i guess I'm shit out if luck ..cuz I won't be alive a few centuries to come . Unless we found the immortality juice 🥤. 

7 minutes ago, An young being said:

But, then they wouldn't have much to do and might even create pain to themselves as a hobby. Who knows, selling diseases for a price in the future might become a good business idea

This is unrealistic.

Would you trade pleasure for pain out of boredom from said pleasure?  We don't see example of this in wealthy people for example. 

9 minutes ago, An young being said:

This is just a very small portion of God's love, a very small lifespan compared to the entirety of the God's lifespan. The best thing you can do right now is find ways for contentment in this life, and spirituality is one of the ways to do so.

Who knows, maybe you will get a life full of joy and zero suffering in your next life, once you are grateful for and contented with this life.

Thanks for the advice  . But again I'm shit out of luck because I'm attached to pleasure and sensitive to pain. And the way to achieving my dreams in life and the pleasures thar I want to experience is filled with pain and struggling or obstacles. 


"life is not a problem to be solved ..its a mystery to be lived "

-Osho

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1) Why are you asking aspies wankers on a forum who think they are great philosophers because they take DMT, rather than doing rigorous intellectual work, like studying real theologians?

Being pretentious and subversive on a lazy forum is easy;), but are you ready to read thousands of pages of theology?

2) Why do you think you are capable of understanding the scope of creation when you are just a bunch of biases, that you are totally powerless to the point of not having the same idea of why you are there, or you go and even just what you “are”.

Everyone here understood everything but not many people produced something lol.


The devil is in the details.

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Posted (edited)

48 minutes ago, Someone here said:

No one has answered anything . My question goes much deeper than that. 

So far all I'm hearing is "without pain you can't appreciate joy " cliche in different ways to articulate . As if this is a limitation upon God.  As if God can't create a world better than this with zero pain and max joy .

Results like these don't belong in the resemay of a supreme being . If that's the best God can do then I'm not impressed. 

If I really have to answer, “humbly” (:ph34r:), even if I'm too lazy to be more rigorous. :

If there is only "the energy of joy", then there is no longer a joy/unhappiness dichotomy, therefore no more judgment, therefore the experience of "the energy of joy" has no more no more bias.

Basically, I see that there is a theater scene, and "humans" playing to avoid/get closer to x object.
You are still in the play.

 

Edited by Schizophonia

The devil is in the details.

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8 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Why are you asking aspies wankers on a forum who think they are great philosophers because they take DMT, rather than doing rigorous intellectual work, like studying real theologians?

I do both . I believe this forum has great intellectual geniuses like Razard86 and Breakingthewall and Princess Arabia etc just to name a few . 

I stopped believing in anything religion related. I used to read books in my teenage years but now I became very difficult with my questions that no human book can answer.  I don't wanna ramble here but do you know any specific book that answers all existence questions? 

But recently I got into reading Law of  attraction books because I want to attract certain things into my life .

14 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Being pretentious and subversive on a lazy forum is easy, but are you ready to read thousands of pages of theology?

I read Islamic kalam(theology) its quite fascinating.  But trust me they don't know better than me . I can kill all those theologians with questions like if god is all powerfull can he create a rock that he himself cannot lift? 

16 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Why do you think you are capable of understanding the scope of creation when you are just a bunch of biases, that you are totally powerless to the point of not having the same idea of why you are there, or you go and even just what you “are”.

I don't know anything.  In the most literal sense possible. 

So I'm hoping to learn .

 


"life is not a problem to be solved ..its a mystery to be lived "

-Osho

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15 minutes ago, Someone here said:

1-what makes you sure of this ?

2-i guess I'm shit out if luck ..cuz I won't be alive a few centuries to come . Unless we found the immortality juice 🥤. 

1- By looking at the past, and coming to a logical conclusion. Just go back a hundred years, and there was no paracetomol.

2- That's why you have to rigorously believe in afterlife,lol. Beliefs are good for you if you make you contended, even if it's a lie.

18 minutes ago, Someone here said:

This is unrealistic.

Would you trade pleasure for pain out of boredom from said pleasure?  We don't see example of this in wealthy people for example. 

Wealthy people experience heavy loads of pain, don't get fooled by the projections they display. The mind is a great balancer of pleasure and pain, and that applies to those having a fully pleasurable life as well. Consider that you have removed all kinds of pain from existence. Wouldn't you long for atleast some lower degree of pain such as having a cold and eating a nice meal after getting cured, crying, an extremely hot meal, boredom, etc.?

 

26 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Thanks for the advice  . But again I'm shit out of luck because I'm attached to pleasure and sensitive to pain. And the way to achieving my dreams in life and the pleasures thar I want to experience is filled with pain and struggling or obstacles. 

That's why you need to move towards spirituality. You need to give up what you desire to see that they don't matter much than selflessness or a less ego centric life.

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11 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Basically, I see that there is a theater scene, and "humans" playing to avoid/get closer to x object.
You are still in the play

Both options are not bad though. Towards a pleasurable hell or a blissful heaven!

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