Basman

28 year old girl scheduled to die via AS due to depression

230 posts in this topic

She is lucky with that choice. Let her. I’m jealous . I think it should be more easily accessible considering how the world is today and how it can be , being human 

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Posted (edited)

17 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

If n number of people apply for assisted suicide, will you accept all those n people for AS?

At some point, you got to say no.

I wonder what that point is.

IMO, a bottleneck-type effect is more than enough to deter people who might be doing it more "impulsively", which comes in the form of whatever series of passes and checks that people have to go through to reach their objective. For whatever already exists for countries that allow assisted suicide, this is likely a process that involves multiple years, I imagine at least 2-3 years at the bare minimum on top of a longer waitlist, and likely multiple psychiatric and/or medical assessments. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...) That automatically weeds out the impulsive and those without determination, leaving a very small fraction of people who were actually serious about the outcome, have likely already thought about the outcome extensively, and have had more than enough time to come to terms with what they desire. Much like anything else which is difficult in life that involves going directly against the grain.

Though I don't think we collectively have much to worry about when it comes to this issue of influencing impressionable minds to commit suicide. I wouldn't say that it's making suicide more glamourous or accessible, since people who really want to do it, even if the motives are highly emotional and impulsive, will just do it anyway.

Which by the way, was already a known thing with certain cults and even literary works, which triggered clusters of suicides. For example, Goethe's "Sorrows of Young Werther" triggered many suicides when it came out in the late 1700s. Ironically, the book was written because the author himself was trying to process his own suicidal feelings, and his art came from figuring out how to make something positive and constructive despite it all.

Art is probably always going to be more glamourous (and therefore influential) than mainstream science and the government, and therefore more influential with impressionable and young minds. Should we just go back to banning art and media? (This is actually what happened with the Sorrows of Young Werther; I believe it got banned in 3 countries.)  The primary influencing factor is a fundamental shift in the emotional and moral fabric of the society first and foremost, and not the government permitting people to do something that most people fundamentally DO NOT want to do anyway.

Quote

To covert your empathy to get something done in reality is a whole different ball game.

Conservatives yap about having kids but block any social schemes that may take care of kids.

Liberals yap about social programs but they are more interested in sending that money abroad to wage wars in fuck knows where.

The problem plaguing these people is ignorance.

Mere empathy is not enough. You need understanding and strong will. You need to be clear on what your guidelines. This is how you make things practical.

Correct. I was more thinking about this in terms of citizen involvement, people like you and I, discussing these issues on the internet. Though perhaps we should also take a look at what politicians DO first, and then measure that against what they say. Talk is cheap...

Decision-making without empathy usually leads to decisions that end up harming the people they are meant to protect though. I think of it as Essential Step 1... Without a deep empathy and comprehensive perspective, there is no foundation for anything good and lasting.

Edited by eos_nyxia

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Posted (edited)

Added Thought:

To make it too much harder than it already is... is patronizing, since it's most often based on the assumption that people can't or don't deserve to make their own fundamental decisions about the quality and meaning of their own life and experience. If you truly care about the well-being of suicidal people (as opposed to obsessing about them being able to do it in a more "convenient" and painless way rather than killing themselves), then forbidding this is likely to backfire and cause those people to suffer more because of the sheer amount of invalidation already existing in their subjective experience. It is unlikely to stop someone from either wanting to kill themselves or actually doing it when it gets bad enough and they get desperate.

IMO this is a bit different than the government not providing assisted suicide facilities because they've decided that making decisions about death isn't their jurisdiction, just because it is not within their scope of responsibilities as a government.

Intentions and reasons matter, especially when people don't live in social vacuums.

Often it is actually INVALIDATION, ISOLATION, and self-negation at the heart of suicidal ideation, not just "pain" alone, whether psychological or physical, even if the pain seems massive and unending in scope. It's believing that you are fundamentally alone, incurable, unreachable, not understandable, unlovable, not worthy... whether by humanity, God, Life itself, etc. Or believing that it is legitimately all for nothing.

Edited by eos_nyxia

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On 25/04/2024 at 4:38 AM, Leo Gura said:

Preety, a former member here, had BPD and it made helping her very difficult because she could not control her emotions. It got so out of hand that eventually I had to ban her. I hope she finds help.

I feel bad for people stuck in such a situation.

Poor thing. She must miss ya. She must have needed your help very badly. You should have coached her privately. Bpd sufferers often react badly to their environments and supportive environments make a huge difference. Sad that you let her go. Suicide rates are high in bpd. Who knows some help from you would have made a difference, hindsight. 


You should seek to transcend the limitations of the ego and the mind in order to experience a sense of unity with the universe or ultimate reality. You can do meditation,sef inquiry and contemplating for that. To recognize the underlying oneness that is believed to exist beyond the realm of dualistic perception.

 

 

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On 25/04/2024 at 1:55 AM, Nivsch said:

Not because of that, but because the very term itself is fundamentally flawed, and blinds us from relating to the problem in the right manner and from understanding what is really going on and connecting the dots in a deeper level.

You make some valid points. 

 


You should seek to transcend the limitations of the ego and the mind in order to experience a sense of unity with the universe or ultimate reality. You can do meditation,sef inquiry and contemplating for that. To recognize the underlying oneness that is believed to exist beyond the realm of dualistic perception.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Poor thing. She must miss ya. She must have needed your help very badly. You should have coached her privately. Bpd sufferers often react badly to their environments and supportive environments make a huge difference. Sad that you let her go. Suicide rates are high in bpd. Who knows some help from you would have made a difference, hindsight. 

The guidelines specifically mention that this forum is NOT designed to deal with serious psychiatric issues.


"Kindness is a language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see."

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1 minute ago, Yimpa said:

The guidelines specifically mention that this forum is NOT designed to deal with serious psychiatric issues.

Are you sure? It doesn't matter either way. Besides who can decide what's exactly serious and what's not. Even bipolar is a serious medical and mental illness. But there are plenty of bipolar peeps on this forum. Am I right? If people want help, let them get help, no harm done. 


You should seek to transcend the limitations of the ego and the mind in order to experience a sense of unity with the universe or ultimate reality. You can do meditation,sef inquiry and contemplating for that. To recognize the underlying oneness that is believed to exist beyond the realm of dualistic perception.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Besides who can decide what's exactly serious and what's not. Even bipolar is a serious medical and mental illness.

Learning about your mental health condition(s) is important. Proper education on it will help you determine a baseline of how severe your conditions are. 

Severity of your condition is key. You can have a serious condition, but its severity is mild. Or it could be severe, which in that case, this forum is inappropriate for you to be in without first getting your condition under control.

This same principle applies to maintaining a job. Many people who work have mental illnesses, but it’s not severe to the point where they cannot perform their jobs.

Edited by Yimpa

"Kindness is a language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see."

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Just now, Yimpa said:

Learning about your mental health condition(s) is important. Proper education on it will help you determine a baseline of how severe your conditions are. 

Severity of your condition is also key. You can have a serious condition, but its severity is low. Or it could be high, which in that case, this forum is probably inappropriate for you to be in without first getting your condition under control.

You don't get to decide what's appropriate. That was my point. 


You should seek to transcend the limitations of the ego and the mind in order to experience a sense of unity with the universe or ultimate reality. You can do meditation,sef inquiry and contemplating for that. To recognize the underlying oneness that is believed to exist beyond the realm of dualistic perception.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

You don't get to decide what's appropriate. That was my point. 

I’ve been in relationships with someone with severe BPD. I begged her to get hospitalized when it got that bad and she refused. It was mentally taxing to try to help her that I had no other choice but to stop talking to her and take care of my own mental health needs.

She finally got hospitalized a few months after that and she’s in a much better place in her life now. We don’t speak as much, but the quality of our communication is significantly better, even though she still struggles with BPD.


"Kindness is a language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see."

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@Yimpa I don't hear stories sorry. My point wasn't addressed sufficiently. Come to the point please. We were debating on.... 


You should seek to transcend the limitations of the ego and the mind in order to experience a sense of unity with the universe or ultimate reality. You can do meditation,sef inquiry and contemplating for that. To recognize the underlying oneness that is believed to exist beyond the realm of dualistic perception.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

23 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

I’ve been in relationships with someone with severe BPD. I begged her to get hospitalized when it got that bad and she refused. It was mentally taxing to try to help her that I had no other choice but to stop talking to her and take care of my own mental health needs.

She finally got hospitalized a few months after that and she’s in a much better place in her life now. We don’t speak as much, but the quality of our communication is significantly better, even though she still struggles with BPD.

Great but most bpd are people who can and also need to get help from an advanced conscious community when regulated in special sub forums and done responsibly.

Edited by Nivsch

🌻Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF.

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This forum is not designed for BPD.

Pretty India had more posts than Leo gura. Back then drama was on almost every thread she touched.

 Three are better places for her.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Yimpa said:

The guidelines specifically mention that this forum is NOT designed to deal with serious psychiatric issues

Ok so throw them to the ocean to be dependent only on psychiatry without broadening their perspective. Very responsible.

Edited by Nivsch

🌻Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Buck Edwards said:

Poor thing. She must miss ya. She must have needed your help very badly. You should have coached her privately. Bpd sufferers often react badly to their environments and supportive environments make a huge difference. Sad that you let her go. Suicide rates are high in bpd. Who knows some help from you would have made a difference, hindsight. 

You can't talk someone out of BPD and I am not anyone's therapist.

Don't get the wrong idea about what I do. I am a philosopher. I do not deal with mental illness.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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Posted (edited)

17 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Ok so throw them to the ocean to be dependent only on psychistry without broadening their perspective. Very responsible.

I would be extremely careful with letting "conscious" people telling her what to do.  Being enlightened will have almost nothing to do with knowing how to help someone who is dealing with a mental illness (especially as severe as BPD). The likelihood that a know-it-all user here will be able to help her is much less likely than that same person telling her something that will affect her negatively.

There is also a case to be made - that if you allow her to stay you will contribute to her stress, because she will get triggered repeatedly by other forum members.

Edited by zurew

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24 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Ok so throw them to the ocean to be dependent only on psychistry without broadening their perspective. Very responsible.

Let’s say someone fell off a ladder and got seriously injured. They required surgery and now physical therapy. The irresponsible thing to do is to force that person to start running when they can’t even get out of bed yet.


"Kindness is a language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see."

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The better analogy is: if you fell of a ladder and broke your leg, you wouldn't go to Socrates or Plato to fix you. You'd go to a physician.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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Here is an important reminder:

 


"Kindness is a language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see."

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

Let’s say someone fell off a ladder and got seriously injured. They required surgery and now physical therapy. The irresponsible thing to do is to force that person to start running when they can’t even get out of bed yet.

 

49 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The better analogy is: if you fell of a ladder and broke your leg, you wouldn't go to Socrates or Plato to fix you. You'd go to a physician.

When in emergency or acute phase yes.

In the long term you have to be as holistic as you can.

When I reacted to you above I didn't talk about emergency but on chronic phase managment.

Edited by Nivsch

🌻Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF.

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