Basman

28 year old girl scheduled to die via AS due to depression

230 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

You're acting as though everything leads to only negative consequences. This is where we need open mindedness. 

This is not about open mindedness, this is about responsibility. You treat this forum as a place where you can experiment on these people ,while you don't want to take any responsbility if your advice have a negative effect on them.

This place is not a place for doing experiments or research on these people.

Edited by zurew

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Just now, eos_nyxia said:

Funky ideas? I have a set of self-protective boundaries, as does this community. It's basically built into the forum rules; you ought to read it if you haven't.

Have you ever met or interacted with the person in question? In her own way, she did not want to be helped, or she only on her very specific, often changing terms, which was exhausting. (Someone mentioned her refusing to get professional help at the time.) She regularly picked fights (or vice versa) with people publically and privately and then would make up with them (or not). Like I said, she set many people on edge, including other people with various diagnosed conditions on here, including people who also suffered from suicidal ideation. Those people matter too, you know. 

I also tried to "help" as much as I could at times as I had talked to her quite a bit in PM, though I don't know what good it did. She and everyone else either got kicked out or moved on.

I am not saying that she deserved to suffer, or that she actively wanted to suffer. There is a difference.

How do we know that this community or maybe some members weren't toxic to her. There are fights here everyday. From the outlook of your series of posts on this thread alone, seems like you had personal vendetta against her, I wouldn't trust your opinion on her. So also others. Groups like these communities can be inherently harmful if people bear grudges. Your post seems like an example. That's not the kind of language you should use for anyone, let alone for someone who you claim to be helping who is struggling. No more debate sorry. Carry on but it's kinda fucked up to be this negative about someone when they are not here. 


You should seek to transcend the limitations of the ego and the mind in order to experience a sense of unity with the universe or ultimate reality. You can do meditation,sef inquiry and contemplating for that. To recognize the underlying oneness that is believed to exist beyond the realm of dualistic perception.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

27 minutes ago, zurew said:

your brain actually works quite differently compared to people who don't have that

Because of tons of factors that worsen his situation much more than me or your situation.

Edited by Nivsch

🌻Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF.

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"They have tried everything". Sounds like bullshit.

 


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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Just now, zurew said:

This is not about open mindedness, this is about responsibility. You treat this forum as a place where you can experiment on these people ,while you don't want to take any responsbility if your advice have a negative effect on them.

This place is a not a place for doing experiements or research on these people.

I'm saying that you can't decide if something has a negative effect. Let the girl decide. Regarding therapy, I'm not against it. But along with therapy, if they wanted real help in a community in the sense of whatever support they need or life advice, I'm not against that either. What I'm against is boxing someone as mentally ill and being restrictive or making decisions for them on their behalf. How do you know that by turning them away, you aren't causing them more harm? What if turning them away actually makes them suicidal? 


You should seek to transcend the limitations of the ego and the mind in order to experience a sense of unity with the universe or ultimate reality. You can do meditation,sef inquiry and contemplating for that. To recognize the underlying oneness that is believed to exist beyond the realm of dualistic perception.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Buck Edwards said:

How do we know that this community or maybe some members weren't toxic to her. There are fights here everyday. From the outlook of your series of posts on this thread alone, seems like you had personal vendetta against her, I wouldn't trust your opinion on her. So also others. Groups like these communities can be inherently harmful if people bear grudges. Your post seems like an example. That's not the kind of language you should use for anyone, let alone for someone who you claim to be helping who is struggling. No more debate sorry. Carry on but it's kinda fucked up to be this negative about someone when they are not here. 

Oh, people definitely were toxic to her too. There was no doubt.

And I'm sorry, but your opinion about this doesn't matter. You weren't there, you don't know what happened, you're projecting onto me, and your judgement of character based on your emotions and biases is rather questionable. I think I'm being quite generous considering some of the things that happened.

I helped her and supported her as best as I could in good faith, with whatever limited means I had at the time. It was all I could do.

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Just now, eos_nyxia said:

Oh, people definitely were toxic to her too. There was no doubt.

And I'm sorry, but your opinion about this doesn't matter. You weren't there, you don't know what happened, you're projecting onto me, and your judgement of character based on your emotions and biases is rather questionable. I think I'm being quite generous considering some of the things that happened.

I helped her and supported her as best as I could in good faith, with whatever limited means I had at the time. It was all I could do.

Good for you. 


You should seek to transcend the limitations of the ego and the mind in order to experience a sense of unity with the universe or ultimate reality. You can do meditation,sef inquiry and contemplating for that. To recognize the underlying oneness that is believed to exist beyond the realm of dualistic perception.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

36 minutes ago, zurew said:

Recognizing correctly who has what seems to be essential to maximize the ability to help and sometimes helping means that you need to let certain people go.

For me an independent thinking was key to reduce my anxiety and ocd.

Conventional methods didn't help me at all, and I dare to say any linear method cannot tackle any problem on its root, though legitimate as an additional tool to try, and as a baseline to start with.

Edited by Nivsch

🌻Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF.

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14 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

For me an independent thinking was key to reduce my anxiety and ocd.

Conventional methods didn't help me at all, and I dare to say any linear method cannot tackle any problem on its root, though legitimate as an additional tool to try, and as a baseline to start with.

This. 


You should seek to transcend the limitations of the ego and the mind in order to experience a sense of unity with the universe or ultimate reality. You can do meditation,sef inquiry and contemplating for that. To recognize the underlying oneness that is believed to exist beyond the realm of dualistic perception.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

34 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

I'm saying that you can't decide if something has a negative effect.

Hence why you shouldn't give advice about certain things, that you are not educated or sure about (especially when it comes to medical advice). 

34 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

How do you know that by turning them away, you aren't causing them more harm? What if turning them away actually makes them suicidal?

Thats possible, but I think its still better than letting that person  seek medical advice from  people who are not educated on the topic, and who are explicitly stateing that they won't take any responsbility when their advice do more harm than good.

34 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

What I'm against is boxing someone as mentally ill and being restrictive or making decisions for them on their behalf.

Thats being framed like that person was boxed in based on little info or framed like there was a strong sign that her relationship to the forum was getting better. People here triggered her and she triggered some people - if you want to manage that, that requires a lot of care - will you take responsibility for monitoring and moderating all discussions like that?

 And yes, certain people can't take as much responsibility because their ability to take responsbility is undermined. Treating some people as if they could take as much responsibility for their decisions as you is one assumption that you should question, because that base assumption can lead to harm.

29 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

For me an independent thinking was key to reduce my anxiety and ocd.

Conventional methods didn't help me at all, and I dare to say any linear method cannot tackle neither problem from the root, though legitimate as an additional tool to try.

That supposed to be an argument in favour of what exactly?

Edited by zurew

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Just now, zurew said:

Hence why you shouldn't give advice about certain things, that you are not educated or sure about (especially when it comes to medical advice). 

That's exactly what you're doing, you aren't some doctor or expert. Telling me what to do funnily enough. 


You should seek to transcend the limitations of the ego and the mind in order to experience a sense of unity with the universe or ultimate reality. You can do meditation,sef inquiry and contemplating for that. To recognize the underlying oneness that is believed to exist beyond the realm of dualistic perception.

 

 

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   I regret not being part of this thread sooner, wow it's kicking off now!

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Just now, Danioover9000 said:

   I regret not being part of this thread sooner, wow it's kicking off now!

Come join. Te Amo. 


You should seek to transcend the limitations of the ego and the mind in order to experience a sense of unity with the universe or ultimate reality. You can do meditation,sef inquiry and contemplating for that. To recognize the underlying oneness that is believed to exist beyond the realm of dualistic perception.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

2 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

That's exactly what you're doing, you aren't some doctor or expert. Telling me what to do funnily enough.

You are being bad faith there. Im not saying what you should do, we are having a debate about which approach is better and which approach has more downsides.

I never claimed to be a doctor or an expert and never implied it.

Edited by zurew

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, eos_nyxia said:

Even if you're not held legally responsible for someone killing themselves (are you? can you be?), people in a community will hold you morally responsible if that person ends up doing it, whether you could feasibly have done anything to prevent it or not. It follows people who are considered to be in "role model"/ leader type positions around like a black stain, at least until the original people leave or memories fade.

This happened at least once on this forum already while Preety was still here.

Does no one here remember this happening?? A member committed suicide here a handful of years ago....

Taking direct responsibility for people is not something which should be done automatically nor lightly. Having and developing general empathy, within your means as best as humanly possible... that is a separate issue.

Edited by eos_nyxia

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2 minutes ago, zurew said:

Its part of an argument which approach is better and which approach has more downsides. I never claimed to be a doctor or an expert and never implied it.

All your statements imply it sorry. Just don't play that game please. 


You should seek to transcend the limitations of the ego and the mind in order to experience a sense of unity with the universe or ultimate reality. You can do meditation,sef inquiry and contemplating for that. To recognize the underlying oneness that is believed to exist beyond the realm of dualistic perception.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, zurew said:

That supposed to be an argument in favour of what exactly?

Of helping a person in believing in himself and building an infrastructure of self validation and independent thinking.

Edited by Nivsch

🌻Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF.

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Posted (edited)

2 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

All your statements imply it sorry. Just don't play that game please. 

What are you talking about dude, which statement of mine implies that Im an expert or that Im a doctor?

Edited by zurew

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Just now, zurew said:

What are you talking abou dude, which statement of mine implies that Im an expert or that Im a doctor?

Almost all of your statements you speak on others behalf. How are you sure about what's helpful to someone and what's not and why should any of your suggestions or advice be considered legitimate when you're not an expert especially when you lecture others on not being able to decide what outcome is possible or not possible in the same breath? That sounds hypocritical and deceptive to me. 


You should seek to transcend the limitations of the ego and the mind in order to experience a sense of unity with the universe or ultimate reality. You can do meditation,sef inquiry and contemplating for that. To recognize the underlying oneness that is believed to exist beyond the realm of dualistic perception.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

(especially when it comes to medical advice). 

The medicalization trend of mental experiences is by itself a problematic perspective needs to be questionable just as everything else.

Edited by Nivsch

🌻Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF.

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