Carl-Richard

I got a THC vape cloud sprayed in my face as a prank — Trip report (?)

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Posted (edited)

Let's just say a person I know bought a THC vape and decided it was a funny idea (while they were high of course) to prank me by breathing a THC vape cloud through the toilet door. Their intention was not to get me high but simply make me smell the vape cloud (which is basically odorless) and see my reaction (which is absolutely stupid if you know anything about pure THC, but hey, he was high and also in general not very knowledgeable about these things).

They have done similar things before with a nicotine vape, and he probably expected a similar reaction, which was an aversive one but not very serious. Let me also be clear that I had told the person when they bought the vape to not do such a thing with THC (at least implicitly by saying "don't use it inside the house"), because it's very different than nicotine, but in their stoned stupor, they must have forgotten that. Another fun contextual fact is that this happened exactly one week before my last graded exam for my Master's, and I had planned to read like a maniac for that week (which I still ended up doing), but I did of course have some problems with that. It's not a big deal though because I got a good grade, but anyways, it could've gone pretty bad if I had gotten higher than I did.

So how high did I get? Not very (I'm speaking as an ex-stoner here). The cloud was sprayed through the crack of a closed door just above my head, and the cloud must have spread out from there and entered my lungs. Of course, I was in a compromised position as well, taking a dump and being realistically unable to escape when I had gotten the information from the pranker. I had probably breathed in the majority of the cloud before I had gotten the information anyway.

What I did notice was that reading the following days became not exactly difficult, but different. It was as if a large chunk of my long-term memories were locked away in a black box in my mind and I was reading the text while being unable to access these memories, effectively seeing things from a new perspective. I found this effect not productive at all for interpreting what I was reading. The only thing I think it could've been productive for would be to review some piece of text that I had written myself and maybe write down some new ideas or see new connections. However, the reading speed was somehow quite enhanced, but again, it doesn't really help much when your interpretation of the text is not so enhanced (or enhanced for that particular purpose: connecting what you're reading with prior knowledge). This can be described as some of the "dissociative" effects of THC, in that dissociation involves blocking access to some parts of your mind (in this case some of my long-term memories). My short-term memory was also definitely affected, but it was not really as much of a problem in comparison.

The irony of it all was that I had just started reading about neurotransmission and neuropsychopharmacology (the course I was taking was biological psychology), and eventually, I reached the part about cannabis. It made me more curious about how the THC could be affecting me negatively, particularly memory consolidation (which is central to learning and retaining new knowledge). THC is known to reduce or even eliminate REM sleep, and REM sleep is central to the formation of new memories. I did in fact notice some weird reduction in vividness of dreams, but I did still dream, so I must have gotten some REM sleep. Another issue is how THC increases cortisol, and increased cortisol (especially chronic increase, i.e. over a long time period) has been shown to damage (or reduce the functioning of) the hippocampus, which is of course involved with memories. THC is a nasty substance in this sense as it goes into all your lipid membranes, all your fat stores — basically anywhere where there is fatty stuff, which causes the long elimination half-life (how long it takes for the drug to exit your body). I landed on an elimination half-life of 24 hours as a guideline for myself to track my progress and to frankly cope with the situation. By this estimation:

  • after 24 hours, or 1 day, you'll have 50% of your initial THC left in your body;
  • after 2 days, 25%;
  • 3 days – 12.5%;
  • 4 days – 7.25%;
  • 5 days – 3.625%
  • 6 days – 1.8125%
  • and finally 7 days, on exam day – 0.90625%.

So being high on exam day was not really an issue. And I wasn't. However, the additional psychological stress from being poisoned with a substance that could potentially jeopardize the exam, as well as the physiological stress from the increased cortisol from the THC, probably increased the usual fatigue associated with reading heavily (exam stress in the sense of worrying about the exam was not really an issue), so it definitely did impact how much and how well I could read and thus my performance on the exam. But again, it didn't matter that much after getting the grade (although I also value learning things well, which was, again, decently impaired).

The aftermath or long-term effects are more interesting and is the reason I wanted to write this thing. Maybe one hour ago, I was riding an el-scooter home from the gym and I rode past a group of people smoking a joint while walking down the street. I only did a little sniff to see if it was actually weed, and indeed, it was weed. And I kid you not, that tiny sniff made me slightly high. It's not at all the same strength as when I was poisoned, but I could definitely notice a difference. I was listening to music while riding and suddenly the music became considerably more immersive, colors became slightly brighter, time slowed down a tad bit; you know — all those weed-y effects.

Now, is this just make-believe or could there be actual pharmacological action going on? Well, it's a bit ironic again, but as I was reading for the exam about drug tolerance vs. drug sensitization, I learned that it's (especially) possible to get sensitized to a drug if the drug is administered multiple times but infrequently. In fact, drugs usually don't have a strong effect before you administer them multiple times and you get sensitized to them (which explains phenomena like people not getting high their first time). As an ex-stoner, I had definitely gone through that process of sensitization before, and maybe when I got poisoned, I got sensitized even further. So now, maybe my brain is like a THC smoke detector. Merely a few molecules might be able to trigger an alarm-type response. It could also be a kind of post-traumatic stress reaction, as you could qualify the process of getting poisoned in this way as a trauma, especially when you consider how PTSD is most reliably acquired when it's by the hands of a malevolent actor, often involving a lack of control and a break of trust.

So will I forever be doomed by merely the smell of weed (I highly value my sober state of mind), in a world where weed is experiencing more and more public acceptance, or will it wash over some day? We know that PTSD sometimes goes over by itself (I'm not saying I actually have PTSD, but you get the point), so maybe that's a good sign. Anyways, I think I've written more than enough about this.


Any takeaways? For me: maybe I need to become much clearer about communicating my boundaries to people. Then again, never underestimate stupidity. For you: don't prank people with drugs.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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Posted (edited)

17 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Any takeaways?

Maybe you have a genuine sensitivity that I don't have. But it seems like you could be reading too much into this. The exposure you had was minimal, it probably barely affected you.

Edited by aurum

 

 

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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, aurum said:

Maybe you have a genuine sensitivity that I don't have. But it seems like you could be reading too much into this. The exposure you had was minimal, it probably barely affected you.

It definitely affected me. The question is if it's something objectively measurable or if it's all in my mind. That said, does it sound right to say "PTSD is all in your mind"? (Again, I'm not saying I have "actual" PTSD).

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

The question is if it's something objectively measurable or if it's all in my mind.

Could be both.

Placebo effects are often objectively measurable.


 

 

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Posted (edited)

22 minutes ago, aurum said:

Could be both.

Placebo effects are often objectively measurable.

I meant like measurable in the sense that there are actual THC molecules docking in my brain at a substantial amount or if the smell triggered some learned psychological response. I agree that the psychological response would have a measureable physiological side, but that is not the measurement I'm talking about.

As for molecules docking at the nose, we know that the sense of smell only requires a few molecules to trigger an experience, so I would definitely imagine it's possible to smell weed long before you're getting high from it.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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Posted (edited)

research drug sensitization ( NOT DESENSITIZATION )  and neural pathways formation. Chemicals physically rewire the brain. For topics like this, plowing chatgpt for half an hour will resolve all your questions in terms of biochemistry and neuology. You're really missing out if you arent using it for your studies

Edited by mmKay

World's #1 Spiritual Twerking Coach 🍑

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4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I meant like measurable in the sense that there are actual THC molecules docking in my brain at a substantial amount or if the smell triggered some learned psychological response.

I would guess the second option is way more likely. The actual THC you were exposed to sounds minimal from your story.


 

 

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1 minute ago, mmKay said:

research drug sensitization ( NOT DESENSITIZATION )  and neural pathways formation.

I did for my exam.

 

2 minutes ago, mmKay said:

For topics like this, plowing chatgpt for half an hour will resolve all your questions in terms of biochemistry and neuology. You're really missing out if you arent using it for your studies

ChatGPT lies.


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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Posted (edited)

27 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

ChatGPT lies.

😂

It’s not perfect

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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41 minutes ago, aurum said:

I would guess the second option is way more likely. The actual THC you were exposed to sounds minimal from your story.

If it's the second option, stoners should be jealous (meh, it's not like I had to lie down and eat two bags of chips and a pizza).


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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Please don't turn this into PTSD. If you study PTSD, it is entirely based on how you choose to interpret an event, how you hold it in your mind. The reason PTSD is so hard to get rid of is based on how personal that interpretation is. The more fear, the more justification of evil involved, the more of the interpretation of the event being unfair/victimization the more difficult it is to shake off the event.

So be careful, PTSD is not an inherent human condition like some illness, it is entirely created. I know I've purposefully experienced and even forcefully put myself in certain situations to test this theory and from my direct experience I was able to overcome intense fear through recontextualization and put things behind me. So be careful with how you are choosing to construct/interpret things.


You are a selfless LACK OF APPEARANCE, that CONSTRUCTS AN APPEARANCE. But that appearance can disappear and reappear and we call that change, we call it time, we call it space, we call it distance, we call distinctness, we call it other. But notice...this appearance, is a SELF. A SELF IS A CONSTRUCTION!!! 

So if you want to know the TRUTH OF THE CONSTRUCTION. Just deconstruct the construction!!!! No point in playing these mind games!!! No point in creating needless complexity!!! The truth of what you are is a BLANK!!!! A selfless awareness....then that means there is NO OTHER, and everything you have ever perceived was JUST AN APPEARANCE, A MIRAGE, AN ILLUSION, IMAGINARY. 

Everything that appears....appears out of a lack of appearance/void/no-thing, non-sense (can't be sensed because there is nothing to sense). That is what you are, and what arises...is made of that. So nonexistence, arises/creates existence. And thus everything is solved.

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Posted (edited)

21 hours ago, Razard86 said:

So be careful with how you are choosing to construct/interpret things.

I can choose to interpret a feeling I get as pure illusion. I've tried that, and it works. But you know what? I don't like it. It's intentional dissociation. You're intentionally numbing out your sensitivity, your alarm systems, your intuition, and by extention your sensemaking, overall intelligence and ability to orient yourself in the world. As a general strategy, it's not worth it imo.

I'm otherwise very aware of how I interpret things. For example, I have learned to catch myself getting seduced by most people's neurotic tendencies, particularly my fellow students ("ahhh the subjects are so hard!", "we have to read so much!", "I'm so burnt out!"). I have to ask myself "do I actually agree with this, or am I just playing a social imitation game?" and then adjust accordingly ("no, I don't believe with that").

Another similar big seduction (also from fellow students) is externally motivated behavior (e.g. only reading subjects when you absolutely have to for a grade, or choosing to strategically read some subjects over others to maximize grades), which might seem like small things, but I'm highly internally motivated for my studies, which is an invaluable resource, so any social influences that might subtract from my intrinsic enjoyment of my studies I've started to look upon with great suspicion.

However, when it's not something merely cognitive or conceptual but also involves sensory aspects, emotions and feelings, like feelings in the body or my overall assessment of my internal state, I've become highly suspicious of "doubting" these things. These things are irreplaceable tools that you need in order to be an embodied and grounded being in reality. You can choose to ignore how your foot feels when it hurts, but this decision can lead to disastrous consequences when taken to the extreme. That's just one example, but it applies to anything, even how you interact with other people.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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You seem really anxious.


If you dont understand, you're not twisted enough.

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22 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

You seem really anxious.

The DSM test you gave us said that "compulsive" and "hypomaniac" were my biggest traits. I don't know about "anxious" :P


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Posted (edited)

14 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The DSM test you gave us said that "compulsive" and "hypomaniac" were my biggest traits. I don't know about "anxious" :P

:P

Well, technically hypomania is a form of anxiety. An attachment and therefore excessive reaction to your objects of identification in matter, the same for compulsion (fear of objet lost).
But your ultimate will is, on the contrary, peace, ultimate acceptance. This is why you masturbate, eat chocolate, listen to music...

I digress.👀

Edited by Schizophonia

If you dont understand, you're not twisted enough.

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

:P

Well, technically hypomania is a form of anxiety. An attachment and therefore excessive reaction to your objects of identification in matter, the same for compulsion (fear of objet lost).

Where do you get these definitions? "Hypomania is a form of anxiety" seems to imply that it's a sub-category of anxiety, which it isn't. Hypomania describes extreme changes in mood, which may include anxiety, but also all other kinds of emotions and energy levels, like depression, sadness, joy, ecstasy. But sure, anxiety could be a common component, as anxiety disorders are the most prevalent of the DSM disorders. Compulsion is simply the feeling of the need to perform some action, and not doing so may lead to discomfort.

 

5 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

But your ultimate will is, on the contrary, peace, ultimate acceptance. This is why you masturbate, eat chocolate, listen to music...

I digress.👀

My turn to drop an out-of-pocket one-liner: you're peculiar.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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Posted (edited)

@Carl-Richard your brain has become sensitized in a similar way as Leo with psychedelics where he will trip for 24 hours with a single puff of weed. His case is more extreme though but I think this gives you a satisfying perspective to understand what happened 

It's like Google reminding your browser history. With the press of one single letter in the search  engine it will show you entire phrases you've searched before. You've carved out a neural pathway and undoing it is either impossible or takes a decade+ of abstinence, and even then it can come back rapidly with a little consistent use

Edited by mmKay

World's #1 Spiritual Twerking Coach 🍑

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THC metabolites is what lasts a long time and what can be detected in drug tests, this is different from it having effects which last this long. Metaboloites can be tested for up to 1 month while THC itself breaksdown faster.

 

After cannabis consumption, THC is metabolized inside the body by cytochrome P450 enzymes such as CYP2C9 and CYP3A4 into 11-hydroxy-THC and then further metabolized by the dehydrogenase and CYP2C9 enzyme to form 11-nor-9-carboxy-THC (THC-COOH) which is inactive at the CB1 receptors;[2] and further glucuronidated to form 11-nor-Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol-9-carboxylic acid glucuronide (Δ9-THC-COOH-glu)[3] in the liver, from where it is subsequently excreted through feces and urine (via bile from the liver).[4] Both metabolites, along with THC, can be assayed in drug tests.[1]

 

Getting high for a week is really weird.... it should not last this long. I suspect you might have a metabolism abnormality which makes your body inept at converting THC and excreting THC metabolites.

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26 minutes ago, Twega said:

THC metabolites is what lasts a long time and what can be detected in drug tests, this is different from it having effects which last this long. Metaboloites can be tested for up to 1 month while THC itself breaksdown faster.

 

After cannabis consumption, THC is metabolized inside the body by cytochrome P450 enzymes such as CYP2C9 and CYP3A4 into 11-hydroxy-THC and then further metabolized by the dehydrogenase and CYP2C9 enzyme to form 11-nor-9-carboxy-THC (THC-COOH) which is inactive at the CB1 receptors;[2] and further glucuronidated to form 11-nor-Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol-9-carboxylic acid glucuronide (Δ9-THC-COOH-glu)[3] in the liver, from where it is subsequently excreted through feces and urine (via bile from the liver).[4] Both metabolites, along with THC, can be assayed in drug tests.[1]

 

Getting high for a week is really weird.... it should not last this long. I suspect you might have a metabolism abnormality which makes your body inept at converting THC and excreting THC metabolites.

What's the point ? 

What will you do with the results?

16 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Where do you get these definitions? "Hypomania is a form of anxiety" seems to imply that it's a sub-category of anxiety, which it isn't. Hypomania describes extreme changes in mood, which may include anxiety, but also all other kinds of emotions and energy levels, like depression, sadness, joy, ecstasy. But sure, anxiety could be a common component, as anxiety disorders are the most prevalent of the DSM disorders. Compulsion is simply the feeling of the need to perform some action, and not doing so may lead to discomfort.

You confuse with depression, hypomania is a type of excessively "high" mood, that is to say euphoric or angry.
It is a form of excessive or even pathological attachment (anxiety).

There is no neuroendocrinological difference between anxiety and euphoria, the hormones and neurotransmitters involved are the same depending on the context.

 

Whatever 👍

16 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

My turn to drop an out-of-pocket one-liner: you're peculiar.

That's true  :)


If you dont understand, you're not twisted enough.

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On 4/10/2024 at 0:56 AM, Carl-Richard said:

basically anywhere where there is fatty stuff, which causes the long elimination half-life (how long it takes for the drug to exit your body). I landed on an elimination half-life of 24 hours as a guideline for myself to track my progress and to frankly cope with the situation. By this estimation:

Fat solubility doesn't necessarily mean a long half-life (as in all day long). For example, caffeine is also sufficiently lipophilic to pass through all biological membranes and readily crosses the blood-brain barrier. Yet, people can drink caffeine early in the day and still eliminate it by the end of the day without it affecting their sleep. Don't smoke close to bed is how you eliminate the REM suppressing effects of THC. Although regular weed smokers do show abnormal sleeping patterns, which is a concern.

 

On 4/10/2024 at 1:32 AM, Carl-Richard said:

As for molecules docking at the nose, we know that the sense of smell only requires a few molecules to trigger an experience, so I would definitely imagine it's possible to smell weed long before you're getting high from it.

Are you talking about second hand smoke or smelling the plant itself? Smelling the plant is highly unlikely to get you high friend. The form of THC that is found in uncarboxylated buds/plant is Tetrahydrocannabinolic acid (THCA). This is a prodrug to THC and doesn't exert psychoactive effects. Conversion of THCA to THC in the body is very limited. Hence why decarboxylated via heat is crucial for getting high. Plus, the smell of weed is due to terpenes, not THC. Second hand smoke is possible but also very unlikely as most of the THC is being absorbed when someone smokes and diluting it with air is just so not effecient that almost no one gets really high just from being around weed, but not impossible especially if its hotbox.

 

On 4/10/2024 at 0:56 AM, Carl-Richard said:

Merely a few molecules might be able to trigger an alarm-type response

Again, highly unlikely. A few molecules? No way, man.. The bioavailability of THC when smoking or inhaling is approximately 25%, with a range of 2% to 56% (although most commonly between 10 and 35%). So when you say a few molecules, cut that by 80%.

 

Also, considering the THC is lipophilic, this means that a lot of it won't even reach your brain but will absorbed in other tissues. Not all of it reaches the brain, and the majority of it isn't even absorbed. A few molecules will not produce an effect; no more than smelling cigarettes makes you high on nicotine. It's harmful to breathe smoke, but that's different from actually getting high from said smoke.

Also, you use words like "poisoned" when referring to THC ingestion. Let me first say this: I AM NO FAN OF WEED. I realize its addictive and I was addicted to it.. I know it's not a harmless drug, and it does affect brain development, etc. But you weren't poisoned. Poison means there has to be some form of neurotoxicity involved. THC is not neurotoxic in normal doses, it can actually be neuroprotective in some cases, like protecting from stimulant induced excitotoxicity and reducing brain oxidation.

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