SOUL

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Posts posted by SOUL


  1. @outlandish 

    You are the one who started a thread chastising people who are speculating or suggesting they know whether someone is "enlightened" or not and you even are critical of the topic itself by calling it bullshit while mockingly refer to some trophy you made up in your own head you think others are certifying themselves with in recognition...... then you tell people they aren't and never will be. That they are falling into a trap, an ego trip and that it's hubris so are doing the very same thing.

    You go on to  compare people and contend that we cannot be like them, so in your mind through your reasoning and you plainly show in this thread you are polishing the Dalai Lama's "enlightenment trophy" so doing the very thing you are bashing others for what you say they are doing. Now I'm not trying to be critical of or to bash you but I'm simply pointing out the behavior and how it is an indication of the inconsistency in your mindset and the distress in your inner being because if wasn't so you wouldn't be lashing out at others in this way.

    So which is it? You can't have it both ways, you are denouncing this practice you seem to think it some egregious act but you also practice it yourself while denouncing others for doing the same. I hope you don't get offended by me saying this but you are being quite hypocritical.


  2. Why do people who believe they don't have free will choose to tell others they don't have it either? I guess they have no choice and are subject to the unconscious mind's impulses.

    Attempting to stop the mind from thinking is like attempting to stop the heart from beating. Why? It's what it naturally does. Although, I would liken the exercise of awakened contemplation to conscious breathing, we can intentionally cease for a short time but eventually we pass out from the lack of oxygen to our brain and the body resumes breathing when we aren't actively preventing it from doing so.

    In a similar way we can try to not think but when we aren't looking the unconscious mind springs forth with impulses in many forms. Since we cannot see the unconscious mind doing it's thing it is only once it rises to the conscious mind that we notice it. So our work is to be aware of the machinations of the mind and observe them, not try to stop it from doing what it naturally does.

    By being aware of what stirs in the mind we can cease to be influenced by the mind's unconscious impulses which are past experience and choose to be present in the experience of what is happening now. By being attentive to the present moment we are creating the pattern of being present in our unconscious mind to recall at another time.

    So at that other time will we reminisce about being present in a past time? Will we just remember us being present in a past moment or will we be present in the moment we have to be in now?

    It's our choice....or is it?


  3. @Nahm Allowing the ego to preoccupy awareness with the comparing of ideas and concepts in the mind is where something like truth comes from. I am being present accepting what is as it is, awareness in the moment doesn't have any need for the paradigm construction of truth in the mind to just be. When we remove the stories and allow the self conscious' natural ability to recognize and process ever changing information for successful navigation in our environment as an organic being is as close to what really could be called "truth" without labeling it as anything.


  4. "Truth" is just another construct of the mind, it's a concept that the ego builds a paradigm around to orient it's self identity and it creates dogmatic ideas in the process. Releasing the desire to seek the truth is one of the most freeing exercises one can do for awakening from the conditioning that transpires in the mind, just accept things as they are without trying to 'truthify' every experience.


  5. My experience of fulfillment in life increased when I disassociated the contentment I feel in life with life itself, not attaching it to things or work or anything. That way my fulfillment wasn't contingent on my life's circumstances appealing to hopes or expectations so when things didn't go my way I still had a sense of fulfillment that couldn't be disrupted by it.


  6. Often what gets lost in the search for the 'not knowing' experience is the yearning for knowing that the mind has, this craving that is hard wired into the very nature of our consciousness. The 'not knowing' experience is less about whether we know something or anything or not, it's more about ceasing the mind's desire for knowing, the primal impulse that is the impetus for the mind to conceptualize through identification.

    How can we possibly eliminate something that is an involuntary function of our biological existence, the monkey mechanics of our brain? By finding the pure awareness of our consciousness. This is the part, for a lack of a better word, of our consciousness that isn't enslaved to the manifest mind and in exercising this part of our consciousness we can experience, again for a lack of a better word, not just 'not knowing' but also the absence of this craving to know.

    With this experience comes the inner peace that infinitely satisfies in a way that no amount of knowledge could fill the mind.


  7. @Elisabeth My apologies for swapping the singular and plural but that doesn't constitute the basis of the confusion you claim I am bringing, in fact you don't attribute it to that so I will move on from it.

    Quantum physics, quantum theory and quantum mechanics all come from the phenomena that violate the laws of classic physics and those effects obviously happen in the physical world otherwise they wouldn't be observed. Those physics, theory and mechanics fields of study come from the effects observed in physical world but the source of these effects are not the same classic physics those effects violate and the fields of study on those effects aren't a study of the source of those effects, just the study of those effects as observed in the physical world.

    Until we can account for the mechanisms that cause the phenomenal effects we cannot include them in the "observable" category of the known universe. The source of these effects are still quite mysterious and unknown, we just know of the effects in the observable universe from it. This is why I said it isn't physical and what I am referring to is the source of the effects, just to clarify, maybe sub physical could be a phrase used instead. Either way, the fields of study that have sprung up around the discovery of these phenomena explain the effects of them in the physical world and is not the same as explaining the source of the effects itself.

    I googled "physical" out of curiosity and in the initial return listed from wikipedia it says, "Physical property, any aspect of an object or substance that can be measured or perceived without changing its identity." What's interesting is that according to this definition the double slit experiment shows something non physical since a photon changes it's identity from a wave to a particle depending on whether it is measured or perceived, aka observed. I'm not saying this is proof of anything but it's kinda funny nonetheless. Also, can we observe dark matter or dark energy? Do we have math in theoretical physics that accounts for them?

    I don't know what Leo says about it, I didn't bring him up so if you want to discuss what he says or thinks about it find someone who knows about that... like possibly Leo himself. I think you are creating the "confusion" by your responses to my initial comment all stemming from a single phrase, "isn't physical", which I defined right away as not adhering to classic physics. No matter how you attempt to spin my comment into what it appears you want to argue, it wasn't anything more than just that.

    I will repeat the point of my initial reply which was on the thread topic, the tenuous relationship between academia and "high consciousness" is the result of an ideological war over the "right answers". This seems to be inhibiting discovery about consciousness since the scientific community only wants the answer to be reduced to materialistic terms. Yet, there's more and more evidence to support that consciousness has effects associated with quantum phenomena and we are well aware the source of those effects are still as mysterious as the day we discovered them so this is problematic for them.

    It becomes increasingly noticeable when advancement in understanding our world and ourselves is hindered because people want their answer to be right, not the right answer to be known because of an ideological dispute.


  8. @Elisabeth So let me get this straight, you are calling me out on your own impression of what I said and on the words you used to characterize my point? That is an interesting call out I must say.

    Firstly they call individual photons quanta, so I guess more than one photon would be called quantum. Although quantum mechanics is a completely different set of phenomena and quantum physics is the physics built upon the effects from quantum mechanics which break the rules of classic physics.

     if I were to address the words you chose to characterize my point starting with mysterious I would have to agree because quantum mechanics are mysterious and from what they work are still a mystery. Then the word underlying I would have agree with as well since quantum mechanics lies under classic physics.

    Finally we come to me saying quantum mechanics are not physical meaning not of classic physics. The reason I say that is because what we call quantum mechanics are really just the effects that we see in the observable universe of classic physics of it's influence since we cannot actually observe what it is that causes the effects of quantum mechanics.

     We don't even have a math that can explain what causes the effects, only a math that explains the effects in the observable universe of classic physics.

    Does that clear up my point at all?

     


  9. Some very interesting consciousness and quantum related research has been coming from Stuart Hameroff and Roger Penrose. They have actually been discovering and putting together hypotheses that would contribute to the connection between consciousness and the quantum.

    There is an dogmatic ideological war going on so many if not most scientists refuse to acknowledge the evidence of the connection between consciousness and quantum. They want to continually reduce consciousness so they can control that "right answers" war and it's limiting scientific discovery because of being ostracized if one doesn't capitulate to the accepted paradigm of reductionist ideology.

    This same ideological war seemingly creates a rift between academia and "high consciousness" as the op put it but this is a false dichotomy. The war is exacerbated by people clinging to ideological extreme positions and ignoring any of the common ground that exists between them since both are similarly exercises in illumination.

    A connection between consciousness and quantum doesn't mean that every fantastical idea someone has about consciousness and quantum has merit or is true because there ultimately may be connection between them. Too often spiritualists will seize upon the phenomena from quantum mechanics and consciousness then extrapolate it into some mystical idea claiming it as a universal truth.

    Also, quantum isn't physical, meaning it doesn't adhere to the laws of classic physics and all that is observed of the quantum is the effects of it in classic physics and the physical world. Just like we don't see the wind, we just see what the wind blows so learn about the wind from what it blows.

     

     


  10. It's not really a death in the way it's typically understood, the ego just doesn't want to lose it's dominance over awareness so it creates the perception of a "death" to influence us into not restoring it to the natural and less prominent role in our consciousness. This lesser role in our consciousness is an unsatisfactory state for the ego compared to what it craves so this may be where the dissatisfaction you are experiencing could be coming from.