Strannik

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Posts posted by Strannik

  1. Posted · Edited by Strannik

    9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    The answer is Love, but you are incapable of understanding that now.

    Show me how exactly how the Schrodinger equation (and not any other kind of equation) follows from "Love".

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    Why are you so biased as to reject suffering? God has no problem with suffering. You do. That's your problem, not God's.

    OK, if you are God, then prove it that you have no problem with suffering. Turn on the stove and put your hand on it. Your body-mind will suffer and try to reject it, but you do not reject suffering if you are God that has no problem with suffering, so keep it on the stove. Let me know how it worked for you.

  3. Posted · Edited by Strannik

    12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    This is a silly question because all of science is a fantasy. Schrodinger equation is bullshit and irrelvant to understanding Consciousness.

    The brute fact of your direct experience is that certain phenomena follow exactly the Schrodinger equation. Surely it is irrelevant to understanding what Consciousness IS. But it is relevant to understanding what it DOES, and how and why it manifests certain phenomena such that they always follow this equation. But you are avoiding this question because you have no answer. In other words, you know what Consciousness is, but has no clue why and how it is dreaming what it is dreaming, silly. 

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    Suffering keeps you alive, silly.

    And why could not Consciousness be perfectly alive and dreaming its dreams without any suffering?

     

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    Infinity is so profound is cannot ever know itself in full detail. Because it is endless.

    So, it's helpless and clueless because it's endless. Poor Consciousness ...

    So, Consciousness is forever alone with nothing "outside" of it, it is forever helpless to change its dreaming or stop it, forever unable to understand why it is dreaming what it is dreaming with all of the experience of suffering in it. I don't see any "Bliss" and "Love" in it, it's actually quite a miserable way of existence. May be that is why it hides from itself always trying to pretend to be someone else?   

  4. Posted · Edited by Strannik

    7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

    I edited my post slightly.

    OK, then IMO "love", "truth", "oneness" (and I would add the "infinity") are just like "referring to non-duality as capitalism." As a result, people get confused and stuck clinging to their experiences or ideas of "love", "truth", "oneness" or "infinity" without realization that all these ideas and experiences are just that - only ideas and experiences, they are just part of the same dream. 

  6. Posted · Edited by Strannik

    24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    ==But none of those I saw who called themselves "enlightened" have ever been able to explain how exactly this dream is being manifested and why it is following the exact mathematical rules of physical laws down to tiny particles.==

    Oneness is inexplicable because explanations requires two things: a known part explaining an unknown part. But Oneness has no parts.

    I was not asking to explain Oneness. I was asking to explain how and why the Oneness manifests forms exactly according to the Schrodinger equation. And also, why it manifests it such that there is a humongous amount of suffering in it which it is unable to stop. Apparently, Oneness can know that it is Oneness, yet it has no clue why it manifests forms in a way like that. Clueless and helpless Oneness.   

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    It misses God & Absolute Truth.

    In other words, dreaming that is dreaming about itself that it is "God & Absolute Truth". I think it's just funny... 

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    You can Awaken. And that is your proof.

    I've seen too many spiritual gurus resorting to this argument, but it only works on naive seekers. 

  7. Posted · Edited by Strannik

    15 minutes ago, Moksha said:

    You believe that I believe xD

    We agree on the emptiness of beliefs. Some read "The entire universe is suspended from me as my necklace of jewels" and create a belief based on these words. Others directly realize the meaning beyond the words. Within the dream there are deeper levels of realization. Then again, it is just a dream. The more lucid you are, the flimsier the dream (including you) becomes.

    That's right, and that includes the realization that the realization of the "Infinite Absolute God" is also just part of the dream. And when that falls away, all that remains is just THIS: pure and immediate experience of suchness-presence-nowness-awareness here and now manifested in the flow of forms and phenomena (with nothing "Infinite", "Loving" or "Absolute" about it). 

  9. Posted

    1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

    You are having fun, and me trying to explain myself seriously. It's obvious that I'm bit stupid and you a clown

     

    Apart from fun, all I'm saying is that you can go further from clinging to your beliefs in the "Infinite Absolute", but only if you want to. I'm just showing you the way. But if you are happy with your beliefs, then who am I to tell you not to cling to them? 

  10. Posted · Edited by Strannik

    1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

    that is a silly statement. You will have meditated for many years and surely it has helped you to be calmer, but for little else. infinity is the absence of limits. That your mind is too narrow to understand this and you need to have your thoughts read is fine, but that you respond rudely, ridiculing those who take the time and effort to answer you, makes me think: I'm an idiot wasting my time with this smartass? seems a little.

     

    I'm just having fun here, sorry if it sounded rude to you :)  I'm used to Zen practice which pointers to our false beliefs can be quite rude at times. 

  14. Posted · Edited by Strannik

    28 minutes ago, Moksha said:

    The suchness-nowness-presence-awareness (I'll call it God) that you realize in meditation is God, but not all God is in your realization. Not all God is even within the cosmos. The cosmos comes and goes as an expression of God, but God still is.

    More words, but maybe the meaning will resonate with you:

    There is nothing that exists separate from me, Arjuna. The entire universe is suspended from me as my necklace of jewels.

    - Bhagavad Gita 7:8-11

    Yeah, I know, been there did that. Classical Advaita. You believe that not all God is in your direct realization (because you direct experience is always finite), so you extrapolate and construct "the rest of God" in your imagination and imagine it to be "Infinite". In your psychedelic trips you might experience some expansion of your everyday state of mind, but it still inevitably always finite, but you would think "aha, if it gets expanded further and further like that, it will eventually embrace the Infinity of God". But you can go even further (only if you want of course) and realize that such extrapolation of your direct experience is only your belief, and any labels and attributes such as "God", or "infinite" or "Absolute" or "Love" are meaningless and redundant mind constructs. They are all what happens in your conscious experience: the forms, ideas, phenomena, attributes, but they are not what reality actually is, they are only a content of your experience (no matter how euphoric or blissful or mind-expanding it may be). It is JUST suchness-nowness-presence-awareness here and now exactly how it is directly experienced empty of any attributes, and nothing else. There is nothing to believe in and nothing to cling to, not even to "Infinity" or "Absolute" or "God". 

  15. Posted · Edited by Strannik

    26 minutes ago, Moksha said:

    All beliefs are delusions. There is only direct realization. I can tell you that I see the sameness in everything, but at best it is a pointer and at worst it will mislead you from yourself. Teachings are scribbles on the map, and should be taken with an ocean's worth of salt. They are not the territory.

    Yeah, I know, I also see sameness in everything - the same never-changing suchness, presence and awareness in every experience at the same moment of now. So what? How does it follow that this "suchness-nowness-presence-awareness" is the "Absolute" or "Infinite" or "Self"? It's JUST a pure direct experience of suchness-nowness-presence-awareness here and now exactly how it is experienced, everything else in addition to that is just our mind construct and our interpretation of it (which is nothing more than beliefs and delusions exactly as you said), and that includes any attributes to this "sameness" such as "Absolute", "Infinite", "Eternal", "Self", "Love" and so on. As a matter of the bare fact of the direct experience of this sameness, it has no such attributes. 

  16. Posted

    1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

    It takes a mystical experience.  It takes awakening to Absolute Infinity.  Becoming it.  Evidence is held within Infinity.  All you need is an open mind and a meditation practice.  

    Repeating again:

    If you are experiencing the actual infinity, then it must necessarily include my perceptions as well (because if it does not, then it is not the absolute infinity, but only a limited version of it). Then tell me what I am perceiving right now. If you can't, then you are fooling yourself, what you are experiencing is not infinity but only your imagination. 

    By the way, I'm a lifetime meditator, mostly in the Buddhist tradition, but also in Advaitic and neo-advaitic. Yeah, I used to experience all the "I AM THAT" euphoria, but eventually came to realization (based on my mystical experience) that the Buddhists are closer to the truth when they deny any reality to any "absolute", "eternal", "infinite", or "self-existing". From that perspective Advaita (including Leo's teachings) does not go far enough into the realization of the nature of reality to realize that it is all emptiness, and all these experiences are just mind constructs, including the experiences of "Self" or "Absolute" or "Infinite".  This realization requires very sober attitude scrutinizing all our experiences and ideas and never clinging to any beliefs or experiences no matter how euphoric or soothing they might be. Advaita and its derivatives still hold to these mind-fabricated beliefs, and so cannot be qualified as the "ultimate enlightenment" from the Buddhist point of view. Leo's teachings are nothing more than classical Advaita sprinkled with DMT trips and euphoric experiences of "halleluiah" on top of it, so essentially no different from Advaita. 

  17. Posted

    1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

    It's obvious that infinity is the case. For something to be finite, something else must limit it. what? and what limits it? the limits are apparent. the finite does not exist, it is false. you are creating it with your mind, right now, creating forms. stop creating them and infinity will be obvious. take enough of a psychedelic to prevent you from creating those limits and you will see it clearly.

    Finite is what I am directly consciously experiencing here and now. The rest of what you said is your imagination and your logic and reason, and logic and reason are just another mind constructs. You cannot prove the ultimate reality with logic, because the ultimate reality (whatever it is) must be prior to logic. As I said again, if you are experiencing the actual infinity, then it must necessarily include my perceptions as well. Then tell me what I am perceiving right now. If you can't, then you are fooling yourself, what you are experiencing is not infinity but only your imagination. 

    I know that arguing with religious beliefs is useless, they are impenetrable. But sometimes I still try...

  18. Posted

    10 minutes ago, Moksha said:

    They see the same Self in a spiritual aspirant and an outcaste, in an elephant, a cow, and a dog.

    - Bhagavad Gita 5:18

    Yeah, and the Buddhists claim that the belief in any self, be it a limited personal self, or the eternal infinite Self, is just another delusion, and so Advaita is a heresy, there is no self or Self whatsoever. 

  19. Posted

    14 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    The absolute it is a bottomless pit of total potential. but above all, it is you, when the limits disappear. the words glory and all that refer to total perfection. perfection means that there is absolutely nothing missing or over. it is complete freedom. reality is that. If you win the lottery, your feeling will be great, but not perfect. infinity is perfect. What you are thinking now or what I am thinking now is nothing, it is unreal. I will not tell you that I understand the how and why of my current finite appearance, but I know that it is only an appearance, a construction about to collapse. but all this conversation is not serving for anything, if you want to realize the infinite, do it. not doing it is stupid, having the means

    It's all a religious fairytale that you are telling yourself in your imagination. There is no evidence that absolute infinity actually exists, because our direct conscious experience is always finite, so it is in principle impossible to experience, and hence experientially prove, the existence of the absolute infinity. So, it's all only your beliefs. But I know it feels very euphoric, so why not?

    According to our direct experience, our consciousness has no boundaries, but that does not mean that it is "absolutely infinite". You are conflating the impossibility to find a limit with actual infinity. Example: there is no boundary that we can find in the sequence of natural numbers: no matter how many apples we have, we can always add another one. But still, the actual numbers of apples that we can experience is always finite. There is no evidence that the infinity of natural numbers as a reality actually exists. 

  20. Posted

    2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    It's totally possible, since the infinity is the case right now, the finite is just appearance. What do you think spirituality is? break the limits of the finite appearance. It is not a story, it is the actual reality. this very moment is infinity, but your mind is like the blinders on the donkey, it only lets you see what you have to see. do 5 meo many times, deconstruct your mind, eliminate the attachment to form, and you will see what it is: infinity. and the word glory, or perfection, or hallelujah, is what comes to mind to describe it.

    As I said, the absolute infinity cannot have any particular attribute of "glory, or perfection, or hallelujah", because it must include all possible attributes.  

    And I think you missed my last paragraph (I edited it at the last minute):

    "There is a very simple test actually. Suppose you are experiencing the actual absolute infinity right now. Then this infinity includes everything, including my own conscious experiences (my thoughts, sensations), so you also must experience what I am experiencing now. Do you? If yes, then tell me my current thoughts to prove it. But if you can't then what you are experiencing is NOT the infinity, but only your imagination of it.   "

    But yeah, it's all "hallelujah" as you say, a religion. Sure, why not, if you want to continue fooling yourself, who is there to stop you?. 

     

  21. Posted · Edited by Strannik

    21 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    I think you can't think in infinity. the infinite does not make any sense and is unattainable by the mind. anything we think is not even close. the only thing we can do is break down the barriers and realize the infinite. One thing I know for sure: infinity is perfection. is what you are looking for. appearance is irrelevant, infinity is absolute glory and it is what we are. nothing can be better. If you have never realized infinity, believe this: it is more than any dream of glory you may have.

    nope. First, you cannot actually experience the infinity. If you think you can than you obviously fooling yourself. And you can't define infinity in any way and limit infinity to "glory". It's all religious mumbo-jumbo. Absolute infinity cannot have any attributes (like "glory", "perfection", "love" or else).

    Also, since it is impossible to actually experience the infinity, there is in principle no experiential evidence that it even actually exists. It's all your religion guys. If you feel comfortable to hold to these beliefs and get so euphoric about them, then go for it, who am I to judge you? But if you really want to be honest to yourselves and try not to deceive yourself into these self-soothing beliefs, then you might think deeper about that.  

    There is a very simple test actually. Suppose you are experiencing the actual absolute infinity right now. Then this infinity includes everything, including my own conscious experiences (my thoughts, sensations), so you also must experience what I am experiencing now. Do you? If yes, then tell me my current thoughts to prove it. But if you can't then what you are experiencing is NOT the infinity, but only your imagination of it.   

  22. Posted · Edited by Strannik

    14 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    The thing is to realize that you are the absolute. Nothing is outside you. Only your pov exist. Your pov is the cosmos. If at any point you switched to receiving thousands of povs at once, it would still be your pov. you can't escape your pov. if you access god's infinite pov, it's still your pov. it's always you

    If you guys would ACTUALLY experience such absolute state (instead of poetically imagining it) you would inevitably experience all the infinite terror of this absolute loneliness, helplessness and meaninglessness of such solipsistic existence.

    Yeah, you may say that all this "terror" is still imagined, but so al that "glory" and "love" of the absolute is imagined too. It's just experiences appearing and disappearing in Consciousness. Consciousness playing with its imaginations. So who cares? I don't see a reason to be so euphoric about it.

  23. Posted

    4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    @Strannik

    I would say that infinity implies that everything that can be, is. what god is is an infinite creative explosion. the implication of what infinity supposes does not fit in the mind. if you look at infinity, you see that everything is glory. Of course, suffering is not excluded, nor is illness, nor torture. Although it would be said that everything has a purpose. everything is exactly as it should be to compose the perfect mosaic. not an atom is where it is by chance. one breath of god is the creation of infinite perfect multiverses which in turn contain infinite multiverses. another breath is the collapse of all that. what god is is inconceivable.

     

    yeah, I know that theory, sounds very beautiful but actually makes our life meaningless. For every version of you behaving in one way there is an infinite variety of versions of you behaving in all other possible ways, good or bad, right or wrong. So what's the point doing anything? For every version of you getting enlightened there is an infinite variety of versions of you being deluded and never getting enlightened. For every version of happy you there is an infinite variety of versions of you immensely suffering. I don't see anything "glorious" about it. It's pretty meaningless actually.   

  24. Posted · Edited by Strannik

    1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

    https://www.actualized.org/articles/reading-a-poetic-description-of-god-consciousness

    OK. I appreciate Leo's poetic undertaking, although I still prefer the masterpieces of classical Advaita like Adavhuta Gita for example.

    Yet, to me it seems like it' s just mumbo-jumboing ourselves into the "oceanic state of oneness" with no clear explanations of why and how the Mind is dreaming what it is dreaming. Why is God is so smart to compute this dream with extremely mathematical precision down to the dreaming of the behavior of the subatomic particles, and yet it is so dumb to deceive itself to believe in the reality of the dream. Why is this so precisely mathematically designed dream is so full of stupidity, self-deception and suffering? 

    "An illusion perfectly designed to allow you to forget for a second that you are God." - says the poem

    So why is God so stubbornly trying to fool itself into forgetting itself and identifying itself with figments of its own dream? And not just forget and wonder around in the dream, but suffer in that dream immensely and brutally without any way to stop the suffering? Why, after such realization of Oneness and Love, Leo is still suffering from digestive disorder and cannot stop it? Yeah, you can convince yourself to be masochistic and "love" pain and suffering without any ability to stop it. But would not it be easier to actually stop suffering, and even more, stop this entire insane self-deceptive cosmic dream, and just rest in formless state, or start dreaming something less nonsensical, less self-deceptive, bearing less suffering? God can perfectly know itself and still dream a world where it continues to know itself while playing with and enjoying infinite variety of forms with no suffering and self-deception whatsoever. But no, Infinite God cannot do it, it cannot control its own dream. Why? Leo perfectly answered this:

     "Somehow it all computes in the vastness of your mind."  

    Exactly - "somehow". God has no clue how it computes its own dream and how to control it. God is indeed Absolute because it is Absolutely helpless and Absolutely clueless.    

    Actually, there is a hypothesis to explain why: when God realized that he is completely alone for the whole eternity, there is nothing to do, nothing "outside" of him, nothing to reach to, noone to talk to, nothing to know, he experienced a psychotic breakdown and, to escape from the infinite and absolute terror of this loneliness and hopelessness, he went insane by starting a dream where he could forget the terror of that realization and by splitting into a vast number of personal perspectives (to escape from the experience of loneliness). He made this dream so that it would be very difficult to get back to that terrifying self-realization. He knew that this dream would entail a lot of suffering, but all that suffering would still be incomparably less that the infinite terror of that self-realization. Then he erased his memories and lost himself into a variety of personalities each believing in their own reality as a separate being. The God's plan for the dream was not to eventually restore the original Oneness, but to actually forever hide and self-deceive away from it.  We were not supposed to get "awakened"!. Does it make any sense?