Nivsch
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Posts posted by Nivsch
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By the way the lower percentage of Jews here in the 19th century is because of, among the rest, forced Islamisation and deportations they have went through before that.
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@Karmadhi You can say the same about the Palestinians that most of them are new in this region too because a little while before that they came here as work immigrants for the Ottoman rule.
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@Twentyfirst This land isn't stolen at all. Jews and Arabs have lived here together during all the last centuries.
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@Danioover9000 If Israel won't succeed in its attemps to fend off Radwan forces far away from the borders through negotiations, then a war against Hezbollah might be necessary, even if neither of the sides wanted it to happen.
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@Raze Israel only need to repel Radwan forces dozens of km northern the lebanese border, in order to them not being a threat to Israelis residents in the North, what could otherwise become a second oct 7th like attack. This is a serious threat caused Northern Israel residents to leave their homes in the beginning of the war.
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7 hours ago, Vrubel said:My flight got cancelled due to the Iran tensions but I'll go a little later as soon as possible.
Oh no problem update me! 😁
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6 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:Exactly, they have to get denounced and either get the ceasefire or face economic sanctions, or reduction in weapons supply, tariffs of products from Israel to other countries, whatever to send a strong signal that wartime in intolerable.
Eliminating hamas is necessary, but this war is done too hastly by our government and not in a smart way. The last thing Gazans need is that hamas will return control them what will be not less tragic than what already happened to them. They deserve a real change that at least something good will come out of all of this mess.
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58 minutes ago, TheAlchemist said:Curious to hear from any Israeli people on the forum, how is this attack being perceived among your friends/families and in the media? Is it perceived as a win because of the air defence being so successful, or is there a sense of anger or desire for retaliation because it sure was quite a large scale attack in many ways?
Neither.
We just had some fear from it and we planned when to go to the shelter in the end of the street and I slept only 3 hours and fuel my day with strong black tea sweetened generousely 😝
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5 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:There are wrongs on both sides - don't agree with them too much it makes you sound like AI
If you want the legitimacy to stand for your (Israel) rights or for the other side's wrongs, you have to be able to see also your side's wrongs where it is difficult, because this is the only way to gain your moral capabilities and stance when you want after that to stand for what you think is important.
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@Raze Don't start with that again. Wikipedia is a fighting zone not an imprinted objective book.
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6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:Terrorism is done by the powerless against the powerful
I think the reasons hamas or Hezbollah attack Israel are much more than that, and are mainly their stage and their meaning of life derived from that, along with their theological appealing. It hard for the western world to see that those attacks are actually what give them meaning and psychological fullness.
But the west think that they are like us just want to live in an organized life similar to us what I think isn't true, and it might be part of the reason the peace negotiations keep failing due to those forces that only increase the terror in such times for example after Oslo agreement and 2nd intifada after 90's agreements.
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@Inliytened1 But to arrest even one child in west bank is wrong, to destroy palestinians homes is also wrong. You can always say "but we are right in this and that" but we have to be smart too and not to fuel hate towards us.
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@Inliytened1 But our right wing policy is dissapointing and problematic.
I didn't say we are like hamas because of course this isn't at all the case. There are developmental and moral huge differences.
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@Raze All the examples there (minus the weapon supplies to problematic regimes) are highly fluid and hypocritical when don't take Israeli survival perspective into account, what is the core of the issue here.
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56 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:The problem is that Israel wants to claim moral superiority and victim status in this conflict but not do the work to be morally superior
Yes sadly at least in the west bank this is surely the case.
I wanted to include the current war in Gaza too minus the killed parameter that wasn't intentional unlike hamas there the key difference between the sides remains, but other parameters yes.
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4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:The real criticism is not of the soldiers, it's of the top leadership and their selfish nationalist policies.
The soldiers are just the pawns.
Yes once there are many isolated settlements, we are Jews and Arabs inmeshed together and then, to manage this physically seems to me as very challenging and chaotic, and only a signed agreement can solve this.
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18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:The one with more muscles and more development has a higher responsibility to use restraint.
Yes I agree, but when a soldier found in this tough zone, and his life is also not so safe there, and there is a violent uprising of the other side, he just think how to stop this to not get into chaos.
I am not justifying his very low consciousness policy that from our eyes this is obviously will only make things worse long term (but he doesn't yet have that view probably) but just say a higher thinking is very difficult to do in this hard area.
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10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:No, that's not what is happening here.
We don't need to assume. It's clear as day by IDF actions that they are abusing their power.
Yes but this is tricky because both sides harm each other, but when one of them have more muscles his actions will be showed as more abusive, and he will be appeared falsely as the bad guy! But this is a psychological deception.
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8 hours ago, Vrubel said:Truths to not overlook in this discussion:
- Israel saved millions of lives and secured a future for Jews.
- Israel was established on undefined land. And the Jews have a damn good claim to it as well as stark necessity for their own state, which ultimately constitutes the bottom line.
- Most early Zionists were secular and socialist idealists who were desperate for peace, that spirit still lives on to a large degree in Israeli society.
- Israel has no inherent problem with Arabs, just look at Arab Israelis.
- Israel’s enemies are total savages in their potential for barbarity ( even compared with reasonable Arab governments which routinely make peace.)Israel must defend itself from that, there is no compromising on that.
- There is a vicious cycle and both sides are responsible for that.
- Israel deserves criticism (any Israeli will agree) but holding it up to some fairy tale standard and being intensely biased in the demonization of Israel is wrong. Ultimately the people that are engaged in the smear campaign totally dismiss the Israeli POV and practically don't respect their right for survival.
- Conveniently overlooking the history you don’t like and arbitrarily choosing from what position you want to start to best serve your agenda. (For both sides).
- The whole attitude of just blame-shifting on Israel instead of being constructive and deeply understanding. There are clear limits of how much you can blame on Israel.
- Hyperbolism is not truth but perversion and is just part of the demonization campaign. To avoid hyperbolism one must be true to (historical) context and similarities.
+1 ❤
Very important points.
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41 minutes ago, Raze said:controlled who left and entered
This is unavoidable for security. Not as an excuse but really.
41 minutes ago, Raze said:controlled their airspace
Same answer.
41 minutes ago, Raze said:controlled their access to food and water
Well this is a closed area. Do you have another way?
41 minutes ago, Raze said:let Arabs build properties on Israeli land,
Both sides build properties there by the way and dont wait to the other side permission. The palestinians ones are not less! Just for honesty.
41 minutes ago, Raze said:bombarded them from the sky
This is the war argument. Not west bank.
41 minutes ago, Raze said:arrested them by the hundred without charged everytime they acted up
This is very hurmful and not a smart way to deal with this. You have to think but how the other side probably see as the only way to keep the order there in this plonter Jews are Arabs live one inside the other. But yeah this is a bad ignorant policy that only make things worse.
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@Inliytened1 A strong military understandably creates an illusionary highly exaggerated picture of "oppression", while in reality what really there is is a friction, between two societies, in which both Israeli right wing policies, corrupted soldiers (many in this area, not just bad apples) and settler extremists, and Palestinian terror groups do harmful actions to one another that fuel the hate between the sides.
in Society, Politics, Government, Environment, Current Events
Posted · Edited by Nivsch
Problematic I won't dispute that of course, but honestly this pattern actually happens in both sides in the west bank and there is a culture of competition in building without waiting the other side permission. The palestinians have not less such buildings.