ivory

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Posts posted by ivory


  1. There are a lot of trappings in Buddhism. That's why Zen came into the picture... to simplify the teachings. If you are seeking Truth Buddhism can be seen as pure nonsense. But eventually you get into the "reduction of suffering" aspect of spiritual practice and Buddhism makes more sense and becomes more valuable. If you are looking for a spiritual community, good luck. There are very few truth seekers. Most get lost in the trappings or develop really annoying spiritual identities. However, you're not going to find much better anywhere else.

     

    That said, if you really want to extract the core teachings of Buddhism, familiarize yourself with the Three Characteristics and develop a breath practice of some sort.


  2. @TheAvatarState

    Hey dude. Just to clarify, true dark night occurs when you become deeply aware of the Three Characteristics: Not-self, impermanence (nothing lasts), and unsatisfactoriness (all of life is suffering, unsatisfactory, unpleasant). If you find yourself obsessing over these truths, then you are likely in dark night. The way out is acceptance. You really need to explore these concepts and accept them on a deep level to get through dark night. It's also important to cut out the highs and do what you can to minimize suffering. Equanimity is what you are after.

     

    A lot of people claim they are in dark night but are just experiencing depression, and depression can have many causes: low self-esteem (negative self talk), addiction, trauma, low quality of life, isolation, lack of job satisfaction, laziness/complacency, idealism. It is crucial to acknowledge that the apparent individual does in fact have needs and responsibilities. A good therapist can help with this stuff and there's no shame in getting help even if you believe yourself to be an advanced spiritual practitioner. Just don't tell them you don't exist :)

     

    I posit that many spiritual seekers get stuck because some combination of the above. You really need to have a healthy ego to navigate some of the more challenging spiritual terrain.

     

    Lastly, make sure you get clear on what's causing your suffering so you know to treat it. Make it a practice to get clear on the thoughts that arise in your mind. You need to make that shit conscious. A noting practice of a free-form of journaling is really helpful here.


  3. Sup my dude!

     

    In a way meaningless is always lurking there ready to be rediscovered. Nothing lasts and all of life is satisfactory to some degree or another so it's only a matter of time before you get caught in the trap of meaninglessness. That said, we still have needs. We need to be engaged with the world to fend off meaninglessness. You need a reason to wake up in the morning but you have to accept that life will never meet your expectations. Idealism is the biggest illusion of all.

     

    There are ways to cope with meaninglessness. Exercise, meditate, eat somewhat healthy, and free yourself of all addictions. It's also important to get some social interaction, isolation isn't healthy. Of course, even though this will all sound meaningless it's crucial that you keep practicing and living a healthy lifestyle.

     

    How does match up with your experience?


  4. @7thLetter I actually agree with most of your points. 

    On 11/4/2020 at 3:41 AM, 7thLetter said:

    The self-actualizing person enjoys solitude and privacy

    Let's not confuse the difference between solitude and isolation. Solitude is healthy whereas isolation is not. That's one of the points that I'm trying to emphasize in this thread.

    On 11/4/2020 at 3:41 AM, 7thLetter said:

    This link also goes on to say: 

    Though dependent on others for the satisfaction of such basic needs as love, belongingness, safety and respect, they get their principal satisfactions from their own development and continued growth. The motif, in the life conditions GREEN has brought about, is to make the best for yourself – this vMEME is very much on the self-expressive side of the Spiral!

    Self-actualising people tend to have deep interpersonal relations with others. They are selective, however, and their circle of friends may be small, usually consisting of others capable of 2nd Tier thinking. In spite of their tendency to privacy, they often attract others to them as admirers or disciples.

    On 11/4/2020 at 3:41 AM, 7thLetter said:

    My opinion on this is that Stage Yellow is just so complex-minded that surface-level thinkers just don't stimulate them through conversation, that Yellow could care less about engaging in an intellectual conversation with them. And how it says "Yellow will walk away from lost causes," I'm sure this means that Yellow understands these lost causes' level of psychological development so well that there's no hope for them to even do better, or that they understand it would take them a long time to even get to a certain level so they don't even bother. Do you try to explain algebra to a toddler and hope that finally they get it? Or do you understand that it takes ages for them to grow up, mature, to even understand what you're talking about? Right.

    I definitely agree that a yellow would walk away with lost causes. Your algebra analogy is rather appropriate. I also agree that many people won't be intellectually stimulating, but I don't think that would be true for all. Yellow has integrated the healthy manifestations at orange and green (for example) so interactions with people at that level won't necessarily be 100% boring.

    On 11/4/2020 at 3:41 AM, 7thLetter said:

    Stage Yellow is rare, it is said that 1% of the population is at this stage, so wouldn't you agree that people at this stage wouldn't necessarily associate themselves with others? Not in an arrogant way, but being realistic. Just understand the fact that people tend to associate themselves with others who are closely similar to them in certain ways. Generally speaking, rich people don't associate themselves with homeless people, healthy fit people don't associate themselves with fat lazy people, you get the point.

    I would agree for sure. I just think it's important to acknowledge that we do have social needs and the lack of tier 2 thinking in society will require a certain level of acceptance for those needs to be met. A yellow person will likely need to accept that his stage green friend is just where he happens to be developmentally. But, he may get bored or agitated from time to time.

    On 11/4/2020 at 3:41 AM, 7thLetter said:

    If anything, I would imagine Yellow to have other like-minded friends, so maybe they would have close friends who are also Yellow, or above. Not to say that they won't entertain friendships with those lower on the spiral, but since this stage is so rare, there's not a lot of like-minded individuals that they likely tend to lean towards being a lone wolf.

    Yeah, that's basically what I was saying above.

    On 11/4/2020 at 3:41 AM, 7thLetter said:

    Thoughts on the image below? This idea of awakening, and socially withdrawing from others is said quite often, so there must be some truth to this.

    I think there's a lot of truth to it. Think about it this way. Health practices, spiritual and growth practices, creative pursuits, and career development. A lot of that happens independently of others. As one develops, there's a desire for growth in all aspects of life. A desire for wholeness. We can only devote so much time to others in order to focus on the other aspects of our lives. Also consider that society is structured so that we have to work long hours just to support ourselves. In a more sane society we would work less and devote more time to other things. One of those areas might be relationships. Instead we are forced to choose, we have to decide what's more important. Obviously, if people are lame we are going to choose more meaningful activities. Maybe things would be different if a larger percentage of people were teir 2, who knows. Given the current set of conditions I can totally see how solitude would be a characteristic at yellow.

     

     

    Again, you and I actually agree on a lot here. We may have differing opinions on whether or not we have "social needs" at all. I'm not sure. I also seem to have the view that yellow would integrate the healthy manifestations of green, and that would include meaningful relationships. i'm not sure where you stand on that. It may also be possible that you don't make a distinction between "isolation" and "solitude" so it's sort of ambiguous to me which one is synonymous with "lone wolf" in your book. This thread was mostly addressing those that isolate. I am actually a huge advocate of solitude.


  5. We easily accept what we find familiar, convenient, and beneficial. As a divided nation it's very difficult to make lasting change because there's so much opposition. Almost every policy push-back and obstacles and that's why nothing gets done. I think what we need is someone like Bernie who's willing to push the progressive agenda to the max in the shortest time possible. For that to happen we'd need a Democrat controlled House and Senate. Once people see that universal healthcare, affordable education, a living wage are all beneficial people will shut their mouths and we can begin to move forward as a nation. Once you have a taste of the good life you can't go back to a lower quality of life.

    Alternatively, we're gonna have to wait for Millennials and GenZ-ers to mature, vote, and take office. One of the problems we have with these generations is that they are lazy and don't vote. But, they will grow out of that. And, when they do stage blue/orange will be on its way out.


  6. Look bad to who? The left is already having a field day with Biden, accusing him of being a corporate democrat. Remember, he has no progressive agenda, he won on the platform of being "not Trump". He will undo the shit that Trump did but for the most part I expect him to be complacent. Healthcare will still be ridiculously expensive, min wage will still be <$8 an hour, college will still be out of reach for most. He is going to take a lot of heat from the left.

     

    To the right he is a puppet of the radical left. So they will cry socialism at every turn. He will go down as the worst pres in history according to fox news, stripping people of their "freedoms" requiring masks, increasing taxes, and shit like that.

     

    The only people that like Biden are old conservatives who don't like Trump.


  7. On 10/30/2020 at 11:03 AM, raytvor said:

    I'll take any advice how to go further.

    First of all it sounds like you're missing out on play and relationships, but it also sounds like you're in some sort of existential crisis or spiritual transformation. Shit like this is very difficult to diagnose because there are human factors as well as spiritual factors that aren't well understood. You need to get real clear on what it is that you want, and what it is that you need. But you're also going to need to temper those expectations with reality. Life is devoid of meaning and inherently unsatisfactory so no matter what you do or where you go you will feel like something is missing. But, you do need a reason to get out of bed in the morning so don't think you can go live in a cave and be mentally healthy. As things become clearer to you you will understand the necessity of balancing responsibility and acceptance.


  8. @Jayson G I hope you don't mind me chiming in here but I can totally relate. On one hand you want to streamline your process on the other hand you waste a lot of time on low consciousness activities. Check it. There are a couple of things going on here. You put a lot of pressure on yourself and you suffer. You're getting in your own with with all the planning, perfectionism, and trying to get it right. I'm not saying to give up entirely but you may want to check your motives. You appear to come from a place of lack both internally and externally. You need to get to the point where are content with both the internals and externals of your life. As for giving up addictions and distractions this is a life long journey. Be easy and patient with yourself, it's only ego that wants to tackle too much.


  9. @Willie Are you familiar with the phrase "not knowing"? You'll hear it a lot in Zen. It's pretty self-explanatory but basically what it means is that we don't know, we can't know, and we need to be okay with that. That said, once the mind realizes that nothing is knowable it's important to cultivate values such as love, kindness, and health. We literally know nothing but at the same time we are responsible for everything and life can seriously turn on you if you don't behave accordingly. Strive to live a healthy lifestyle and be wary of anyone who doesn't.


  10. 41 minutes ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

    The problem isn’t really not being okay with disappointments.  I have had enough of them to not get too carried away.  The problem is if this is all futile.  I also don’t desire an “okay” life.  I desire a great life.  The best way I can describe is I made a song where I am talking about how things have gone wrong, how I wish for my childhood, how I feel different from everyone, how the past haunts me, but I refuse to let my hopes and dreams fade.  One of the best songs that I have written (coming out 2021).

    Yeah, I hear ya. The first noble truth is that all of life is suffering. I get that. The question is, how much suffering? We need a reason to wake up in the morning but we need to be honest about the fact that we have very little control. That doesn't mean that we should play victim. But it does mean that there are no guarantees.

    41 minutes ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

    It’s funny.  As adults we are no different than teenagers.  We all just desire fun.  It’s just that society makes us believe that we can only be “responsible adults.”

    Yes, and this pisses me off. I still struggle with this.


  11. @No Self  Great analysis of the new age movement. I don't know anyone deeply entrenched in conspiracy theories but I have known many new-agers. What has astonished me is their willingness to pile on belief after belief without questioning any of it. I had always wondered why until I had a conversation with one of them. He said, "Without spirituality life would be meaningless." I think you are right in assessing the desire to feel good as a primary motive. But it's also true that many of them are avoiding an existential meltdown (we could argue that that is the desire to feel good). Nothing lasts, all of life is unsatisfactory, and there's no self to experience either. Not an easy pill to swallow. It's much more palatable to believe that we have spirits guiding us then to consider the possibility that we're 100% groundless.


  12. @Mjolnir Quite frankly I think you're in a better place than those who obsess over self-development. There's a spectrum with "over-doer" and "under-doer" at each ends. You're more likely to feel content than those who are in a hurry to get somewhere. That said, if there are things you want out of life that you're not addressing then you need to resolve that inner conflict.

    I used to be an over-doer, now I probably lean more to the under-doer end of the spectrum. I feel rather content even though my life isn't perfect (and nor will it ever be). I think that one mistake a lot of people make is that then undertake a self-development journey with the intention of improving themself. I won't say that's wrong, but it is a bit misguided. You grow by doing the things you want and by doing the things you have to do. What's the point of being a super-hero if your life sucks? Lead a meaningful life. Do that.

    Start there, get clear on what you want and pursue that. That's how you'll grow. Don't pursue personal growth because you think you should.

    Lastly, start small. Push yourself a little more than you want to each day. There's no hurry and there's no reason to make yourself miserable running towards the future. Give yourself a break, start slowly, and inch towards a meaningful life.


  13. 7 hours ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

    But will the physical ever be satisfying?  Is that a futile pursuit?

    Are you familiar with the three characteristics (also known as the three marks of existence)? Meditate on that. The first characteristic is that nothing lasts. The second is that all of life is unsatisfactory (in one way or another). So, you tell me.

    That said, when you accept life on a deep level, even with the ups and downs and disappointments you can reach a level of okay-ness. That's what you're looking for.


  14. 8 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

    According to Leo, stage Yellow does indeed have a "lone wolf" attitude.

    I'd really like to see some evidence of this. I personally think that someone at yellow, or even healthy green, is equally content hanging with friends or in solitude. I have notice that there are times in my life where I am more solitudinous than others, but it has more to do with my interests and projects at the time rather than spiritual maturity.

    Did you see this post from Leo?

    8 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

    That being said, I do recognize that having a band of mature, high quality friends is an experience I've never had - and it's something that I would like to try some day.

    It takes time to accumulate a group of high quality friends but I highly recommend it. Most of my friends are introverts like myself so they deep and varying interests. We talk about spirituality, psychology, psychedelics, politics, health; and we go on adventures together. Luckily I live in a fairly diverse city so it's not too difficult to find like minded people.


  15.  

    46 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

    I actually hear this quite a bit, where people basically say things along the lines of "There's no right or wrong way to do Spirituality. Spirituality is right here right now. Spirituality includes all experiences of life." Okay sure, let's say every experience in life is a Spiritual one. But my argument/question to that is, so if I did heroin/meth everyday that's also a Spiritual practice? Doing heroin/meth everyday is not a "wrong" way to do Spirituality? What about the people who live an average life, those who wake up at 8AM, take the train to get to their 9-5 job, pay the bills, on repeat. Are they growing spiritually? Under the assumption that EVERY experience is a spiritual one, where do you draw the line between healthy experiences & unhealthy experiences?

    Yeah this is why I'm not a fan of the word "spiritual". I like "authentic" because there's less room for interpretation and "healthy" and "unhealthy" adjectives are also quite helpful. I would also include an awareness component. Let's just say that if you're truly on the path you strive to live a healthy, authentic lifestyle with conscious effort. It's not perfect, I'm sure others could come up with a more concise definition.

     

    46 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

    Personally, I feel that the more spiritual practice I do, the more I feel the need to isolate myself or withdraw from others.

    This is how it is now,. Desires change, future uncertain.

    46 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

    I was under the assumption that you were denying the fact that you need to sacrifice friends in order to grow spiritually so you created an entire rant.

    What are you talking about? What does it mean to grow spiritually? The wrong friends will hold you back, and the right friends will make you grow. I'm not denying any facts. I have yet to be presented any facts. 

    46 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

    Okay so this thread comes mainly from the perspective of how a person with "Green" values would think, rather than how it is for all of us, wouldn't you say?

    This thread is for those who are denying their basic human needs. Green, pink, purple, whatever.

     

    46 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

    I personally desire more complex intellectual conversations on the topics of philosophy, spirituality, & psychology, but most people don't bring that to the table so I'm quite selective with who I let into my life. This could be a Yellow thing, or it could be a personality INTP thing, I'm not sure, sometimes it can be hard to make the distinction.

    I can relate. I'm an INFJ. Some of this is an introverted characteristic. Some of this is specific to the spiritual practitioner. Many isolate. Some learn to accept and adapt. Others seek out more compatible friends.