Consilience

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Posts posted by Consilience

  1. Posted

    @zurew Alright fair, point taken. This is quite similar with the hierarchy of "wisdom" from MAPLE. Seems like the main difference is the degree of power consolidation accumulated on the basis of the authority. So at MAPLE, as you were rewarded with the admission of "wisdom" by the head teacher, and moved up the chain of command, you were simultaneously rewarded in the sense that you had more decision making power of the day to day unfolding of the community, but more and more deeply extracted from in terms of personal autonomy and sovereignty. Those closest in leadership all speak, talk, and act based on very consistent psychological scripts provided by Soryu. It's literally like watching a mind virus just say the same things over and over, almost no creativity, originality, or authenticity. Which yeah, a lot of the God language around here seems to fall into a similar camp, hopefully without the extraction of life energy component.  

  2. Posted · Edited by Consilience

    I don't have the time (or energy) to read through all of these replies, currently responding to an all out attack from MAPLE on my channel and the aftermath for those most impacted from the assault. 

    I would greatly appreciate the community doesn't turn this thread into a debate about whether Actualized.org is a cult. Even if it has cult like characteristics and is defined as a cult by certain standards, the level of nervous system hijacking and injury, the elements of energetic rape and domination of mind, body, and reality present at MAPLE is in a league of its own compared to Actualized.org.

    Having been apart of both communities throughout my spiritual journey, comparing the two as both being cults like trying to compare tee ball with the major leagues. And until you've stepped in front of a cult leader like Soryu for an extended period of time, you don't know what you're talking about. 

    The only caveat I will say is that I'm not super present on the forum these days so perhaps the cult dynamics of Actualized.org have gotten worse recently, but I would be utterly shocked if Actualized.org even had the potential to turn into anything remotely like MAPLE.

    Please start another thread about Actualized.org being a cult if you'd like. It could be an important discussion. But in this thread, this dialogue distracts from an on-going present moment cult situation I am actively having to navigate. 

  3. Posted · Edited by Consilience

    @zurew All of the points you're raising are worth holding, but for me the difference is I literally just see through the narcissism and move on. At MAPLE there were literal survival based consequences for not being lock step with leadership or the head teacher. The power dynamics of an internet forum, particularly where Leo's one main offering has been a single $250 dollar course and nothing else, is extremely chill compared to so many spiritual groups.

    Moreover, arguments and internet narcissism without any consequences are dramatically different than everything I just listed out and arguments and internet narcissism are not mind control. Being very clear on these mind control mechanisms is incredibly important to be clear on, for your own safety. Being able to spot them from a mile away when encountering a real cult leader could make or break someone's whole path. 

    I do see your points around the group think, echo-chamber like community Actualized.org can fall into is problematic. 

    1 hour ago, zurew said:

    but if you are lock step with Leo's epistemology and all of his spiritual views, then you are free from group think and you are exercising your sovereignty.

    This in particular is a really good point.

    However speaking from my own experience, I feel entirely at peace holding fundamental, core disagreements with Leo, regarding the nature of the spiritual path, where its going, hell even the nature of God. Based on Leo's very standards, if you apply them, have led me out of the group think the community can and does regularly fall into. I feel no need to argue or fight... I had that phase of my relationship with this place, but Im not having my power or life energy extracted because I disagree. And furthermore, by virtue of this being a forum at all I'm allowed to express my views, which is more than could be said about MAPLE. 

    Leo's point about being clear about the distinction between real cults and Actualized.org is actually a matter of safety. There are very specific, precise, and subtle mechanisms real cult leaders weaponize as expressions of mind control that are distinctly absent in Actualized.org, EVEN if or when Actualized.org is expressing echo chamber like qualities or social games of who agrees with Leo. It's truly not the same, and I'm saying that as someone who has had to spent considerable amount of time slowly re-wiring my nervous system after long term exposure to these techniques of mind control Leo lists out in his cult psychology video. 

     

  4. Posted

    3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

    Without using mind control on me (i.e. answer plainly without redirecting, without accusing me of not understanding or being purportedly disrespectful for having a different opinion), what is mind control?

    As someone with direct experience, I would agree with Leo here. Actualized.org is not a cult. 

    Here is a list of mind control techniques MAPLE would employ that are distinct and not present from Actualized.org, some obviously because structurally MAPLE is residential vs Actualized.org is online. But this should help you understand what Leo is referring to. 

    Sleep deprivation, this lowers one's cognitive and critical thinking ability 

    High control group dynamics - MAPLE's daily schedule is so overwhelming busy and void of meaningful leasiure time there's little time for independent thought or reflection

    Relentless Us vs. Them framing - MAPLE creates division of itself with the rest of the world through teachings on how terrible and destructive the world is while offering a new kind of "us" identity as saviors, heros, a kind of "we're the chosen one's to save the world from itself" 

    Emotional Abuse - Regularly the head teacher would use Renzai Zen style outburts of anger or disorienting language 

    Gas Lighting - MAPLE's head teacher had an insanely proficient ability to gas light, divert and control narrative frames, he was an elite level salesman, wordsmith, with an incredibly sharp and fast mind that most people simply do not have the intellectual ability to keep up with

    Meditation/Chanting - these practices were taught with an orientation of controlling the mind through force and self-domination which functionally meant cutting one's self off from feminine wisdom like intuition, deep listening, openness, creativity

    One on one interviews with the head teacher - difficult to explain but the eye gazing, the candle, incense,  the overall ambience of these interviews were designed to facilitate deep intimacy between teacher and student and from that openness, one's nervous system is incredibly open to subtle forms of suggestion and manipulation. It's not that genuine teachings weren't offered during interviews, but there were also subtle distortions that would add up over time as continued exposure compounded

    No privacy - there was no real independence or ability to get away from the group for meaningful amounts of time

    Dress code - very strict dress code

    Adoption of Buddhist names - it was a regular practice to change one's name to take on a new Buddhist identity 

    Regular instances of public shaming - this very easily can hijack the very primal parts of the mind where survival is linked to group belonging and falling in line with the collective

    Explicit and regular teachings explicitly around not trusting one's thoughts and feelings - this functionally serves to sever one's self off from inner knowing and inner authority 

    This isn't even a comprehensive list but hopefully serves to create a clear distinction between what Actualized.org is offering vs cults.

    The biggest reason I don't believe Actualized.org is a cult though is because of how explicitly Leo teaches to take responsibility for one's direct realization, and how much he teaches different frames, techniques, and strategies for cultivating individual personal autonomy and power. Cults are nearly always going to be the other way around; mechanisms will exist to syphon power away from the individual and to the top of the hierarchy. Conversely, it has been my experience Leo is sincerely trying to use his hierarchy as the YouTuber and website moderator to move power from the hierarchy into the individual. This distinct flow of power is why I don't presently consider Actualized.org a cult. Plus again, all of the aforementioned mind control techniques aren't really present here. 

    Leo being good at explaining things =/= mind control techniques. 

  5. Posted

    Per Leo's provided definition - "A cult is a fringe group that uses deliberate mind control techniques to extract money, sex, and power from its user base. A cult is about abusing and exploiting its members in a pyramid like structure." 

    Given this was somehow not clear from my video last summer...

    18 hours ago, Consilience said:

    There was a four hour disclosure of someone's experience who spent more one on one time with the head teacher than perhaps anyone in the organization's history. It's a profound story and probably the deepest spiritual transmission of a teaching I've personally ever received because of how utterly human it is. 

    4 hour disclosure audio substack post link

    The hierarchical extraction across financial, sexual, operational, and spiritual dimensions is demonstrated with exceeding clarity from this testimony.

    The end result of the mind control techniques MAPLE weaponizes against its guests and members is demonstrated in real time via the allergic reaction/response in the YouTube comment section of my video as well as the different forms of online media MAPLE has been having its members put out recently. 

  6. Posted

    16 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

    I wonder what you think about my "cult" experience. Was it a cult? And then, is it categorically distinguishable from this place?

    There are certainly clear structural differences and similarities between the two. MAPLE was in person, moved in direct of explicitly wanting to create a new world religion, etc... But there is a core similarity that there was a highly charismatic leader at the center clearly consolidating power over time via manipulation and domination. 

    From what your describing, the seeds of true cult formation were present in that discord server so even if it hadn't fully unfolded into a full blown cult by the standards Leo presented in his videos on cult psychology, given that the seeds were present it seems appropriate to call it a cult, or at the very least a proto-cult. 

    Being able to recognize the seeds as being distinct but inseparable from the end result, in the same way an acorn is distinct but simultaneously inseparable from the oak tree, is incredibly important when it comes to relational attunement and healthy relationship. 

    All that to say, yeah sure, Id feel comfortable calling the discord server a cult. Even if from a purely conceptual and intellectual definition it doesn't check all the boxes, from an energetic and attuned to the non-conceptual unfolding of reality level, it's moving in a cult like direction sufficiently enough to be worth staying away from and referring to as a cult, in my opinion.  

  7. Posted

    15 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

    I think it's hilarious how strongly Leo disagreed on you categorizing it as a cult throughout the thread, despite you feeling strongly compelled to call it a cult. Almost makes you think 🤫

    This is a really important point actually. MAPLE is absolutely a cult, by all standards. Is is drinking literal death koolaid mass suicide level cult? No. But is it highly sophisticated elite level forms of mind control, manipulation, indoctrination, emotional/spiritual abuse, and clinically narcissistic charismatic leader trying to create a new world religion to save the world with varying degrees of sexual exploitation levels of cult? Yes. 

    Leo accidentally and unintentionally defending MAPLE has actually worked advantageously for them for them - it was mentioned in one of their recent comments as evidence I'm just being a bully. Quote, "Even the cult callout guy on actualized.org calls out this video: "sounds like a dissatisfied customer." He felt blueballed by this video." So... Yeah.

    BUT LEO... c'mon man! You're supposed to be "the cult callout guy" xD

    More precise details of the abuse present at MAPLE are especially clear from the substack post I linked. 

    I should also mention one of the unfortunate qualities of my video was that yes it was somewhat vague, but I also really had no idea how the organization was going to react or respond. The video's primary purpose has essentially served as a kind of lighthouse warning people not to go, as well as make it safer for others to come forward. 

  8. Posted · Edited by Consilience

    I just wanted to update this thread for those who want an amazing case study in cult psychology and an update to the on-going unraveling of the MAPLE situation - 

    There was a four hour disclosure of someone's experience who spent more one on one time with the head teacher than perhaps anyone in the organization's history. It's a profound story and probably the deepest spiritual transmission of a teaching I've personally ever received because of how utterly human it is. 

    4 hour disclosure audio substack post link

    Currently the community is in a kind of allergic response, commenting and liking various comments on my video, in a scramble to improve their online reputation. I suspect this is in part because the video has continued to gain traction and because of the four hour disclosure substack, which they can't directly address, as it draws more attention to it. So instead of addressing the disclosure directly, they're now focused on attacking me. 

    My video link

    A MAPLE member also made a parody video of mine with a nearly identical title and style - a kind of spoof. To not draw more attention to it, I'm not going to bother linking but it's easy to find and quite funny to watch. As well as posted two blog posts about me comparing me to the Buddhist demon mara. 

    The whole thing is rather dramatic and pathetic. Again, sharing this update more so because the MAPLE situation truly is a great case study of these cult dynamics and how dramatically collective movements can turn sour and poisonous. 

    Edit: And also as Leo himself pointed out with his earlier comment about feeling blueballed, the substack goes into much greater detail than my video does. And it's also important to keep in mind even the substack post is only one story and no way comprehensive of everything that's taken place, particularly behind closed doors. 

  10. Posted

    21 hours ago, Cathy92506 said:

    Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water.
    After enlightenment: chop wood, carry water.

    What changes is your relationship to your thoughts and emotions.
    They still arise, but you’re no longer automatically identified with them. You’re not building an identity or a story around every feeling.

    There’s a natural sense of presence—of being here—without needing to control the mind.

    You’re still human. You still fall down—but you don’t get lost in it the same way, and you get back up.

    Life stays ordinary.
    The circumstances don’t transform.
    The shift is internal — in how you relate to the voice in your head.
    ***
    PLEASE CRITICIZE, ADD, DELETE, OR WHATEVER.

    What changes is the spontaneous self-recognition of the nature of reality/mind/awareness/consciousness/God

    Which then: 
    "changes is your relationship to your thoughts and emotions"
    "still arise, but you’re no longer automatically identified with them. You’re not building an identity or a story around every feeling."
    "

    There’s a natural sense of presence—of being here—without needing to control the mind.

    You’re still human. You still fall down—but you don’t get lost in it the same way, and you get back up.

    Life stays ordinary.
    The circumstances don’t transform.
    The shift is internal — in how you relate to the voice in your head."

    Basically everything you mentioned is true, but without the actual "aha" moment of recognizing what's absolutely true, all of what you said can be achieved with metacognition from normal meditation. 

    I'd recommend checking out Peter Ralston's definition of enlightenment. 

  11. Posted

    9 hours ago, GodisOne said:

    OP is not denying the existence of karma and its propagation to the next life. He is wondering how it works exactly. This is where we have to look to the most famous spiritual scientist of our time, Albert Einstein, for insight. who said “Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect, as well as for the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper.”

    He admits that the forces governing karma care outside our control, implying a predetermined universe. 

    Right. This passage I'm quoting is a mechanistic description of karma which is why I shared. Setting aside the question of control, karma is generated based on our actions. 

  12. Posted

    On 3/21/2026 at 7:21 PM, TheGod said:

    What happens to consciousness when its form dissolves be it a rock, an animal or a specific human? How does consciousness chose its next form? Does it use some sort of a rule or it's completely random? 

    Life is obviously seems to be unfair because someone takes on a form of a successful billionaire and someone gets born in Nairobi in Africa. Since God is a supreme and intelligent being there must be some kind of fair logic behind it.   

    I'm curios to hear your theories and ideas about it, especially if you confirmed them in your direct experience. 

    Thank you. 

    This excerpt from a Buddhist sutra comes to mind: 

    "To the extent that there are beings — past and future, passing away and re-arising — all beings are the owner of their actions, heir to their actions, born of their actions, related through their actions, and have their actions as their arbitrator. Whatever they do, for good or for evil, to that will they fall heir." - Upajjhatthana Sutta (AN 5.57)

    In other words, whatever karmic momentum we generate in this life will unfold in the next. The way I see it is that reality is too intelligent, too in balance for our actions not to influence the results of our lives, whether in this current expression or beyond. And furthermore, we see this mechanism of karma playing out all the time in this single life - why would the intelligence of cause and effect, karma, suddenly stop from one life to the next? 

  16. Posted · Edited by Consilience

    Don't really participate much on the forum these days but still check in occasionally. I'm still very much dedicated to the path and to practice. These musings came through this evening after spontaneously meditating and this is probably the only community I'm apart of that would appreciate or gain anything from the writing, so I thought I'd share. It's not a logical argument or intended to convince or explain. The coherence will either resonate at an intelligence beyond the egoic mind, or it may come across as incoherent and at worst, arrogant. It's the reader's choice. 

    -


    Compassion is the functional expression of absolute love which are words pointing to the absolute truth. The truth of the matter is that suffering can only exist when there is ignorance of truth. This is why meditation is so powerful in the long run, it is a direct excavation of the conditions leading towards suffering. While meditation may not offer the full range of the infinitude of consciousness’s myriad forms which may otherwise be accessed through other means such as psychedelics, meditation does offer a meta-contemplation into the nature of reality by way of resolving suffering. The ignorance of what form is, in any expression regardless of state, is what allows for suffering to unfold and therefore is ignorance of form’s nature.

    What do we see when we see clearly into form? Many things. One of which is that there is no one looking which is to say there is only God. Noticing the contradiction of logic, how could no one and God be identical? But such paradoxical thinking becomes coherent in the aftermath of direct experience of what you really are. When looking at the world, what is there? Cyclical existence, filled with countless beings? Or one wholeness, impossible to divide?

    Any perspective held onto as preferentially true is used as the prejudice needed for self-deception; the self arises in clinging to any perceptual unfolding reflecting either the full range of relational reality or the unspeakable expression of formless space as absolute now.

    We see that form is not merely infinite distinction, but that more specifically, distinction only exists as relationship, dependent co-arising. There is no such thing as distinction outside of the meta-context of relationship. A more accurate depiction of relative reality, ie form, is relationship. Reality is infinite relationship.

    When self arises, so too does other. And the moment other arises, how could anything other than love arise? When we truly see other, when we’re truly with the suffering found in our own hearts and minds, right within the distinction there is union. We see through separation into the paradox of other that there is neither other nor solipsism, neither no one and me here now. And yet, it is not my suffering or your suffering, but our suffering.

    There are no sentient beings to save, and yet nothing for the Love of God to do other than vow to save all sentient beings until perfect happiness is achieved by all, by one, by no one.

    Compassion, therefore, automatically arises in responses to seeing the truth. When the truth of one’s deepest desires are found, when the truth obstructing the truth is seen in every corner of the mind, when original primordial perfection is seen to exist in the same place as hell, as being endlessly lost on the rounds of cyclical existence, there is only a single wish - may all beings be free.

    Relative Bodhicitta is discovered in relationship with all beings and is non-dual with Absolute Bodhicitta as being the nature of God.

    Shantideva’s ending dedication then makes sense - 
    For as long as space endures

    For as long as living beings remain

    So then too may I abide

    To dispel the miseries of the world

    We see suffering is simultaneous with being a perfect expression of God and the very mechanism by which God is ignorant of itself.
    We see that there is really nowhere to go or nothing to do, perfection was always already the case.

    And we vow to exert ourselves to the fullest, committed to endless rebirth until all beings are happy.

    Knowing with absolute certainty there is no birth, death, or self
    Only original reality

    Our original face
    What we really are

    And when what we really are stares into the eyes of what another really is, there is just love; there is just the compassion that sees one being doing its best in face of samsara, as though two mirrors staring at one another, unfolding into an infinite hall. 

  17. Posted · Edited by Consilience

    5 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

    @Consilience very interesting.  I'm glad you were able to get out.  Listened to your video and a few of your others.  Nice channel.   Do you think the guru was actually enlightened?  You mentioned you used meditation to uncover what was going on - did you feel you at least grew spiritually from the whole experience?  Again sorry you encountered this but props for realizing it and getting out.  Don't beat yourself up to badly about how long it took.  

    Thank you. 

    Was he actually enlightened? I think Soryu has had direct experiences of the Absolute yes, but that it's not as deep or transformative as would be expected of a man claiming global spiritual authority. The lack of realization slowly revealed itself the more time I spent in the community. On the surface he's very impressive, very charismatic, very persuasive, and has an enormous amount of energy which creates a kind of transmission by being in his presence, which is indicative of having access to very deep states of consciousness via meditation. 

    Yes the whole experience was enormously transformative, spiritually, in so many ways. 

    And thank you for the kind words of encourage. 

  18. Posted

    A friend sent me a link to a medium article that was posted July 9th, 2025 completely unrelated to my release of this video, but that shares another story of these same dynamics. Very interesting timing. 

    It's a very quick read, you can check it out here:
    https://medium.com/@monasticacademyresident/my-experience-inside-soryu-foralls-ai-centered-monastic-academy-769deefe6e34

  19. Posted

    17 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

    Wh-what? I swear I just yesterday read a bit of your old thread from 2022. And now I saw this thread. What a synchronicity. Or concidence? Conscilience?

    :D

     

    17 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

    Escaping a cult is an invaluable lesson in epistemology, the nature of beliefs and self-deception. Speaking from experience 🙂 (and out of respect for the topic, I'm not going to vaguepost around it: I was in Rali's spiritual community from 2017-2018).

    Yeah it is, and to make the decision despite the overwhelmingly toxic group think and social pressure is a lesson in mental resiliency and integrity. It's very sad in this particular example because of how different it was when I began there. However in hindsight, the possibility of its devolving into a more run of the mill like cult were there from the beginning. 

    Appreciate the vulnerability and share! 

  20. Posted · Edited by Consilience

    54 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

    I remember you, it's been awhile since we last heard from you so welcome back!! I'll watch your video after this post. But I remember when you first posted about Maple. What made a clearly intelligent caring person such as yourself want to join Maple? What exactly were you looking for?

    Thank you. 

    I was looking for hardcore, full-time spiritual training which MAPLE does indeed offer. I was also looking for work around the intersection of contemplative practices like meditation and existential risk, which MAPLE also did and technically still does offer. It's just that this offering has slowly morphed into typical cult dynamics over the course of my time in the community. It was a very different community when I first began training there. 

  21. Posted

    6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    Dude, I'm sorry but this is weak-sauce.

    This is not abuse. This is an incovenience.

    It's also a demonstration of incongruent values, self-deception, and domination on the part of the collective.

    You're also not going to be able to understand the exact mechanisms of abuse, even from this one small "inconvenience" of an example, from an internet comment when the context is completely removed and how this example fits into the larger relational web of my place in the community and the history and culture of the community. 

    There is:

    - The act itself

    - what is communicated implicitly to those who have stayed

    - what is communicated explicitly about me to those who have stayed 

    - the mind/karma that is reinforced with this act

    Rather than getting hung up on the smallness of the example, look at the collective mind that gave rise to that decision and the implications of that mind. 

    Also you've got to remember - these were my supposedly close, spiritual friends. To have them essentially flip and turn on me over night is more than an inconvenience. But that's all relative to how much value you place on friendship. 
     

    13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    You didn't communicate any of this in the video. You rambled around in vague generalities.

    If you are going to expose a cult you have to dish all the dirt, the worst of worst.

    Yes, I watched the entire thing.

    Perhaps I should have given more specific examples in the video. I suppose I could pin a comment giving a list of the specific examples. 

    Many of the vague examples I give only those who are connected to the community will know what I'm referring to, so it is a fair point. And was an intentional move on my end that does three things:

    1) Speaks directly to the MAPLE community.

    2) Protects me.

    3) Is hopefully communicated powerfully enough to ward off others from going to MAPLE. 


    It's difficult because as of right now I'm the only one who has really come forth who has the authority to speak on MAPLE and therefore it puts me in an incredibly vulnerable position should any legal action be pursued. Unfortunately, airing out all of the dirty laundry entirely alone would be a difficult thing to do that does not feel entirely safe to pursue, at this time. 

  23. Posted

    3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

    @Consilience Well, I finished watching your whole video.

    I did not understand what made this organization a cult. It sounds like you had disagreements with leadership decisions and values and in typical Zen hierarchical fashion they are not a democracy and don't want your feedback.

    From the things you spoke, it's hard for me to classify that as a cult. It sounds more like a typical hierarchical organization.

    I don't mean to dismiss your claims. But from your video I did not hear serious abuse or mind-control techniques. From what I heard from you in the video, your biggest complaint is that leadership did not listen to your suggestions.

    I am left thinking: either you did not fully communicate the abuse, or MAPLE is not a cult.

    Perhaps you wish to communicate more.

    Because MAPLE is explicitly self-proclaiming unilateral spiritual authority over humanity it is precisely not a typical Zen monastery hierarchical structure nor a typical organizational hierarchical structure, such as the military. It's emphasis on using one man's ideological framework as the basis for civilizational, spiritual transformation makes it distinctly different. 

    Many of the mind control techniques you list in your own cult psychology video I also listed in mine so I'm curious whether you watched the full video or perhaps missed them? Here is a list though: 

    Extensive meditation, chanting, sleep deprivation, a constant high stress work load, very limited amount of free time or room for individual contemplation, instances of public humiliation, an environment that swings between love bombing and harsh anger, a total lack of personal space, constant 2-3 hour talks around ideology of head teacher, a constant emphasis on ideology (rather than contemplation) as the path to truth, a putting down of non-Buddhist teachers or spiritual teachers or thinkers that disagree with the ideology, an us vs. them mentality reinforced through mechanisms of fear, a replacing of one's personal identity with a new identity (taking on new name, dress code, etc.), very intimate, vulnerable one-on-one interviews with head teacher, warped expressions of Buddhist teachings centered around the demonization of thoughts, feelings, and the mind which act as mechanisms of the erosion of one's own self-sovereignty, authority, and trust, and of course, the classic "The world is ending!" framework. 

    As far as harm, I did name multiple instances of abuse in my video that I personally witnessed. But even to take my own story - notice how little the organization considered the financial and physical vulnerability of giving me less than 24 hours notice to leave as a type 1 diabetic. The emphasis was on the suppression of dissent rather than the well being of a three year community member. 

  24. Posted

    1 minute ago, r0ckyreed said:

    @Consilience I was just thinking about you. I’ve been wondering about you and where you went. Cults is one of the reasons why I may never do a formal meditation retreat. Retreats are a distraction from doing the real spiritual work on my own to obtain a sovereign awakening. Glad you’re back.

    Thanks. Well its true there is that risk when going to do retreats with certain communities. The difficult part is that solo retreats, while more powerful, are much harder to do because of how slippery our minds are. Having outside support through the handling of setting up retreat container logistics, and offering teachings, can be very helpful. 

    I know of very few individual's disciplined enough to follow through on serious solitary solo retreats focused on spiritual work. If you can do though, amazing. 

  25. Posted

    1 hour ago, aurum said:

    @Consilience You mentioned that leadership was unwilling to take feedback around the structure of MAPLE. 

    Can you be more specific?

    What were your original critiques of the structure of MAPLE that you feel were not being heard by the leadership?

    The original critiques around the structure of MAPLE revolve around leadership's unwillingness to examine the ways it may have harmed community members as a result of how the organization's hierarchical power structure is set up, both in terms of its non-profit side, and in terms of how it teaches spirituality, specifically Buddhism. 

    There is of course the plausible deniability that the leadership has in fact examined this kind of feedback for themselves. But as a member outside of leadership, the expectation is to adopt the explanations and rationalizations provided, rather than think for one's self, on the basis that those in leadership have demonstrated a higher degree of wisdom, which is why they are in leadership in the first place. 

    I could go into much greater detail, but that's the gist.