Consilience

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Posts posted by Consilience

  1. Posted · Edited by Consilience

    5 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

    @Consilience very interesting.  I'm glad you were able to get out.  Listened to your video and a few of your others.  Nice channel.   Do you think the guru was actually enlightened?  You mentioned you used meditation to uncover what was going on - did you feel you at least grew spiritually from the whole experience?  Again sorry you encountered this but props for realizing it and getting out.  Don't beat yourself up to badly about how long it took.  

    Thank you. 

    Was he actually enlightened? I think Soryu has had direct experiences of the Absolute yes, but that it's not as deep or transformative as would be expected of a man claiming global spiritual authority. The lack of realization slowly revealed itself the more time I spent in the community. On the surface he's very impressive, very charismatic, very persuasive, and has an enormous amount of energy which creates a kind of transmission by being in his presence, which is indicative of having access to very deep states of consciousness via meditation. 

    Yes the whole experience was enormously transformative, spiritually, in so many ways. 

    And thank you for the kind words of encourage. 

  2. Posted

    A friend sent me a link to a medium article that was posted July 9th, 2025 completely unrelated to my release of this video, but that shares another story of these same dynamics. Very interesting timing. 

    It's a very quick read, you can check it out here:
    https://medium.com/@monasticacademyresident/my-experience-inside-soryu-foralls-ai-centered-monastic-academy-769deefe6e34

  3. Posted

    17 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

    Wh-what? I swear I just yesterday read a bit of your old thread from 2022. And now I saw this thread. What a synchronicity. Or concidence? Conscilience?

    :D

     

    17 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

    Escaping a cult is an invaluable lesson in epistemology, the nature of beliefs and self-deception. Speaking from experience 🙂 (and out of respect for the topic, I'm not going to vaguepost around it: I was in Rali's spiritual community from 2017-2018).

    Yeah it is, and to make the decision despite the overwhelmingly toxic group think and social pressure is a lesson in mental resiliency and integrity. It's very sad in this particular example because of how different it was when I began there. However in hindsight, the possibility of its devolving into a more run of the mill like cult were there from the beginning. 

    Appreciate the vulnerability and share! 

  4. Posted · Edited by Consilience

    54 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

    I remember you, it's been awhile since we last heard from you so welcome back!! I'll watch your video after this post. But I remember when you first posted about Maple. What made a clearly intelligent caring person such as yourself want to join Maple? What exactly were you looking for?

    Thank you. 

    I was looking for hardcore, full-time spiritual training which MAPLE does indeed offer. I was also looking for work around the intersection of contemplative practices like meditation and existential risk, which MAPLE also did and technically still does offer. It's just that this offering has slowly morphed into typical cult dynamics over the course of my time in the community. It was a very different community when I first began training there. 

  5. Posted

    6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    Dude, I'm sorry but this is weak-sauce.

    This is not abuse. This is an incovenience.

    It's also a demonstration of incongruent values, self-deception, and domination on the part of the collective.

    You're also not going to be able to understand the exact mechanisms of abuse, even from this one small "inconvenience" of an example, from an internet comment when the context is completely removed and how this example fits into the larger relational web of my place in the community and the history and culture of the community. 

    There is:

    - The act itself

    - what is communicated implicitly to those who have stayed

    - what is communicated explicitly about me to those who have stayed 

    - the mind/karma that is reinforced with this act

    Rather than getting hung up on the smallness of the example, look at the collective mind that gave rise to that decision and the implications of that mind. 

    Also you've got to remember - these were my supposedly close, spiritual friends. To have them essentially flip and turn on me over night is more than an inconvenience. But that's all relative to how much value you place on friendship. 
     

    13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    You didn't communicate any of this in the video. You rambled around in vague generalities.

    If you are going to expose a cult you have to dish all the dirt, the worst of worst.

    Yes, I watched the entire thing.

    Perhaps I should have given more specific examples in the video. I suppose I could pin a comment giving a list of the specific examples. 

    Many of the vague examples I give only those who are connected to the community will know what I'm referring to, so it is a fair point. And was an intentional move on my end that does three things:

    1) Speaks directly to the MAPLE community.

    2) Protects me.

    3) Is hopefully communicated powerfully enough to ward off others from going to MAPLE. 


    It's difficult because as of right now I'm the only one who has really come forth who has the authority to speak on MAPLE and therefore it puts me in an incredibly vulnerable position should any legal action be pursued. Unfortunately, airing out all of the dirty laundry entirely alone would be a difficult thing to do that does not feel entirely safe to pursue, at this time. 

  7. Posted

    3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

    @Consilience Well, I finished watching your whole video.

    I did not understand what made this organization a cult. It sounds like you had disagreements with leadership decisions and values and in typical Zen hierarchical fashion they are not a democracy and don't want your feedback.

    From the things you spoke, it's hard for me to classify that as a cult. It sounds more like a typical hierarchical organization.

    I don't mean to dismiss your claims. But from your video I did not hear serious abuse or mind-control techniques. From what I heard from you in the video, your biggest complaint is that leadership did not listen to your suggestions.

    I am left thinking: either you did not fully communicate the abuse, or MAPLE is not a cult.

    Perhaps you wish to communicate more.

    Because MAPLE is explicitly self-proclaiming unilateral spiritual authority over humanity it is precisely not a typical Zen monastery hierarchical structure nor a typical organizational hierarchical structure, such as the military. It's emphasis on using one man's ideological framework as the basis for civilizational, spiritual transformation makes it distinctly different. 

    Many of the mind control techniques you list in your own cult psychology video I also listed in mine so I'm curious whether you watched the full video or perhaps missed them? Here is a list though: 

    Extensive meditation, chanting, sleep deprivation, a constant high stress work load, very limited amount of free time or room for individual contemplation, instances of public humiliation, an environment that swings between love bombing and harsh anger, a total lack of personal space, constant 2-3 hour talks around ideology of head teacher, a constant emphasis on ideology (rather than contemplation) as the path to truth, a putting down of non-Buddhist teachers or spiritual teachers or thinkers that disagree with the ideology, an us vs. them mentality reinforced through mechanisms of fear, a replacing of one's personal identity with a new identity (taking on new name, dress code, etc.), very intimate, vulnerable one-on-one interviews with head teacher, warped expressions of Buddhist teachings centered around the demonization of thoughts, feelings, and the mind which act as mechanisms of the erosion of one's own self-sovereignty, authority, and trust, and of course, the classic "The world is ending!" framework. 

    As far as harm, I did name multiple instances of abuse in my video that I personally witnessed. But even to take my own story - notice how little the organization considered the financial and physical vulnerability of giving me less than 24 hours notice to leave as a type 1 diabetic. The emphasis was on the suppression of dissent rather than the well being of a three year community member. 

  8. Posted

    1 minute ago, r0ckyreed said:

    @Consilience I was just thinking about you. I’ve been wondering about you and where you went. Cults is one of the reasons why I may never do a formal meditation retreat. Retreats are a distraction from doing the real spiritual work on my own to obtain a sovereign awakening. Glad you’re back.

    Thanks. Well its true there is that risk when going to do retreats with certain communities. The difficult part is that solo retreats, while more powerful, are much harder to do because of how slippery our minds are. Having outside support through the handling of setting up retreat container logistics, and offering teachings, can be very helpful. 

    I know of very few individual's disciplined enough to follow through on serious solitary solo retreats focused on spiritual work. If you can do though, amazing. 

  9. Posted

    1 hour ago, aurum said:

    @Consilience You mentioned that leadership was unwilling to take feedback around the structure of MAPLE. 

    Can you be more specific?

    What were your original critiques of the structure of MAPLE that you feel were not being heard by the leadership?

    The original critiques around the structure of MAPLE revolve around leadership's unwillingness to examine the ways it may have harmed community members as a result of how the organization's hierarchical power structure is set up, both in terms of its non-profit side, and in terms of how it teaches spirituality, specifically Buddhism. 

    There is of course the plausible deniability that the leadership has in fact examined this kind of feedback for themselves. But as a member outside of leadership, the expectation is to adopt the explanations and rationalizations provided, rather than think for one's self, on the basis that those in leadership have demonstrated a higher degree of wisdom, which is why they are in leadership in the first place. 

    I could go into much greater detail, but that's the gist. 

  10. Posted

    3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    @Consilience I don't know of any organizations. You can ask AI about that.

    I will watch your video and make a decision about posting in on the blog.

    Do you want me to delete your review thread?

    Yes please delete the original review thread. Thank you. 
     

    1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

    I didn't see your critique video. Post it here please.

     

  11. Posted

    1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

    @Consilience Gald you got out.

    Let me know how I can help.

    If you have some videos or articles exposing them, I can share it on my blog. Always happy to expose a cult.

    You should also watch my newest video. Things will click for you.

    Thank you. Your cult psychology video is truly spot on. 

    Unfortunately, the only high quality critique I'm aware of is my own video I shared at the bottom of the original post. It would be helpful if you re-posted it on your blog as a way to protect others from going, but I'm sensitive to not wanting to ask for self-promotion. If more resources become available outside of my video report I will reach out though. 


    Do you know of any organizations that specifically help former cult members navigate potential legal ramifications? I am concerned how the organization will respond to all of this in the coming weeks/months, especially given I'm the only real person who has spoken out thus far and they have far more financial resources than I do. 

  12. Posted

    7 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

    The entire world is corrupt including Leo and this forum, big deal. You can still grow in a corrupt structure anyways. There is something positive about the world also. There were positive things in your community as well I'm guessing. That's why you stayed there for as long as you did. No point ruminating on the negative. 

    It's true you can. And you're right about the world and about this organization having some good. I did gain a lot by training there.

    The point in this processing isn't about rumination though, but about contemplation. Sincerely engaging in the inquiry of where our integrity breaks, which is in fact the bridge between how existential insight functions within the relative world of relational existence, points towards our blind spots and lack of realization.

    So yeah, I agree, it's good to not ruminate! And it's good to honestly self-reflect. 

  13. Posted · Edited by Consilience

    Dear actualized.org members.

    It is important I share this update with the community. Around three years ago I made this post reviewing the Monastic Academy for the Preservation of Life on Earth, or MAPLE. Much of what I spoke to was valid relative to that point in time, but has since dramatically shifted. This post is an update to the original.

    I'm sharing this story now as a lesson and case study into the ever present dangers of self-deception. I haven't watched Leo's most recent video on fake-spirituality but can say with confidence MAPLE would fall into this category, as well as fits into Leo's classic video on "Cult Psychology." I re-watched Leo's video on cults towards the end of my Residency at MAPLE and was taken aback by how much Leo's description aligned with what MAPLE had slowly transformed into during my time there. I would approximate 70% of the aspects of cult psychology Leo speaks to MAPLE had slowly fallen into over the course of my training. 

    If at all possible, I would ask either Leo or moderators remove the original review on MAPLE or let me edit it. MAPLE has spent considerable financial resources scrubbing the internet of negative reviews. Now when you search "monastic academy" on google, my original and quite frankly, raving review, is one of the top hits on Google. This could potentially contribute towards harm.

    Below is a statement I've written and shared on other social media and a link to a YouTube video speaking directly about my story. 

    I'm also happy to answer any questions the community may have. 

    -

    Last February I left my time training as a Resident at the Monastic Academy for the Preservation of Life on Earth, or "MAPLE." The TLDR is that I left because I watched this vibrant spiritual community slowly de-cohere into a cult.

    The below video is an account of my story regarding MAPLE, and what I observed which lead to this decision to leave. And it's worth mentioning - MAPLE has self-described explicitly as being a cult; the use of the word is both out of respect for the organization's self-identity and yet critical in that my sharing of this is a pointing to systemic power structures and dynamics typical of distinctly *abusive* cults.

    It's also worth sharing that multiple attempts at giving organizational feedback have taken place over multiple generations of the community on individual-to-individual, small group, and collective scales. I've personally engaged in all three of these forms of attempted feedback. Despite these prior attempts, feedback has not been adequately received nor addressed. Patterns of harm in various forms and iterations have continued playing out. As of right now, I'm the only individual I'm aware of who has deeply participated in the community and training program who is now making a public statement about MAPLE's misconduct.

    However, this raises the question - how is it possible that I, personally, could go along with this for three years?

    Since leaving, I've been in constant inquiry around this; around where personal integrity fractures, and where being a victim to sophisticated, subtle, and highly intelligent forms of manipulative domination meet. However, this inquiry doesn't stop at the individual. While MAPLE and my story are unique, this story is also a fractal of the ways in which planetary systems of power function to dominate not only humans, but all life on Earth. We are in fact in the midst of a global meta-crisis which originates from a collective mind of domination that we are all subject to. To ask where our personal integrity fractures in the face of domination is to be directly in the inquiry of global systems change.

    The tragedy of MAPLE is that despite what I share in my story, MAPLE's work in the field of existential risk and its theory of change speaks to the heart of preserving life on Earth through recognizing any true change of the future of humanity is a function of the transformation of mind. Attempting to address AI Risk, Climate Change, or any other major threat to life on Earth without addressing the axiomatic root of causally productive mind is misunderstanding where systems change actually takes place. Global systems change rooted in wisdom and compassion is inextricable from mind.

    Yet, to weaponize this insight as justification for misconduct is deeply dangerous and hypocritical. It's easy to say that the ends justify the means when one adopts a position of planetary spiritual authority. It's easy to bypass the hard work of relational integrity when there's only the foregrounding of planetary urgency. There are countless configurations of the mechanisms of manipulative deflection and plausible deniability that spiritual authority can wield when the only thing that matters is the conceptual projection of the preservation of life on Earth rather than living in the reality of one's embodied relationships.

    I have no doubts about the sincerity of the MAPLE community, but I also recognize the deep, ever present possibility of self-deception and all of its collective expressions when proper feedback channels are not allowed to exist. The core of why I left and why I'm sharing my story now is a response to this self-protective contraction of the community away from honesty.

    I do not claim to hold all the answers to MAPLE's collective psychology. I do not claim to hold all of the answers to global systems change. And I certainly do not self-proclaim planetary spiritual authority. But I do make a firm claim that it is only through a personal commitment to honesty, integrity, and truth that compassion arises, at any scale. This commitment must not only express itself as a realization of the nature of one's mind, but must also express itself throughout the behavioral conduct of living relationships, and it is the coherence of these two that gives rise to a world based on wisdom and compassion.

    Video Account of My Story

  16. Posted

    4 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

    Honestly, 99% of people here could do with good old Buddhism fundamentals 

    A lot of this place is endless mental masturbation, and lack of real world applications 

    I'd even go down a level and say a lot should go back to to the basics of Self-Help and life 

    'Just had my 26th DMT trip of the week, realized I'm the Egyptian God but can someone lend me £100 for rent and food this month please???' 

    A lot of it has become a pissing contest imo

    +1

  17. Posted

    2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

    @Consilience They are “Beyond” the classic and traditional non-dual schools because he is using radically different, more potent and direct methods. 

     

    Beyond implies above, implies hierarchy. These states are tangental, not beyond. Furthermore, they are wildly less direct if you understand what the goal of traditional spirituality is. The consequences of these indirect, potent methods are wildly misunderstood on this forum. 

    2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

    All those old systems (especially Buddhism even when compared to Toasim which is much more open) don’t have experiential lineages if what these altered states of psychedelics reveal. 
     

    All the psychedelics reveal is the infinite nature of mind. Im not saying this doesn’t have intrinsic value, or provide a certain unique wisdom as one travels. Similar to how when one travels the world there is a wisdom. 
     

    Lineages recognize the infinity of mind, but recognize there is a Truth beyond the infinite nature of mind that recontextualizes ALL states. Such that any additional, new state whether higher or lower shares the same fundamental essence. This is the true gem of spirituality, finding a peace, recognizing the truth regardless of one’s state. This is what liberates and this is what gives the highest understanding. 
     

    This path of Actualized.org is like saying the goal is to keep having more and more realistic dreams, rather than waking up and getting out of bed.
     

    2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

    They are different, and for a practical, grounded, human spirituality there’s lots to be gained from meditation, Buddhist scriptures etc. But there is an infinite world BEYOND all that traditional stuff. 

    Of course. And what is the real value of exploring infinity other than to satisfy one’s own curiosity, or truly, to end one’s suffering of the dissatisfaction of the sober state. Buddhism recognizes there is an infinity of mind, and states of consciousness. If you read the texts you’d know this. What Buddhism recognizes is that these states are not the ultimate truth, nor do they resolve any of the existential conundrums of man.

    If you want to explore them, great! Explore. There is value there, in the relative world. But when you start shitting on the path to truth and fooling yourself into thinking this exploration is “higher” than enlightenment, you’re fucked and much worse, leading others astray. 

  18. Posted

    26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    But the flippant and arrogant manner in which you dismiss states of consciousness is precisely the stench of Buddhism. Your attitude proves my points for me. This is not an attitude with which consciousness can be fully understood because the only way to fully understand consciousness is to experience its furthest extents without judgment.

    The exact same criticism and rationality applies to your understanding of traditional spirituality.

  20. Posted

    Just now, Leo Gura said:

    Exactly why I rejected Buddhism.

    You demonstrate pure denial and arrogance masquearding as wisdom and humility.

    You have no idea what consciousness is capable of. Because you've been brainwashed with Buddhist ideas of what is proper and valid.

    Nothing about your experience is invalid. The actuality and ontological implications of your experience aren‘t invalid either. The metaphysical ranking you’re giving them though, the importance you’re giving them, is a distraction and based on what you’re saying, false. This falshood is not to say they’re invalid or not real. The meaning is false. Thinking this is anything other than more mind and somehow higher than God or beyond God is false. 

    Chasing these altered states will only lead to misery when you understand impermanence and the ruthless, relentless torrent of rebirth and as much as you’d love to distract yourself from, suffering. This Leo character is a fraction, a fiction, a pure fantasy to Truth. Know what you really are, and a dancing alien mouse or burning alive in full lotus can’t touch you. The work or lack thereof you do in this life has real consequences my friend. Tread carefully.

  21. Posted

    1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

    I don't think so.

     

    That means you misunderstood what the work is about. What is the teaching doing in your mind and not your body? You didn't master riding the bike, only read a lot about biking. It's about implicit learning, inarticulate wisdom, integration.

    Yep. 

    Watching this spiral out of control has been such a teaching. 
     

    If anyone thinks they understand Buddhism without thousands of hours of meditation, really 10,000+ minimum, they’re completely deluded. Trying to understand Buddhism without traveling into the subtlety of the sober mind is going fail. Hence the steaming pile of shit we see unfolding with Alien consciousness and Earth consciousness. Which btw, are super cool and have profound implications for the nature of consciousness and reality, but nothing to do with Enlightenment other than they obscure the deepest truth when clung to like Leo is doing. The clinging, that is the stench, that is the hubris and self deception in action, that is the Devil. 
     

    Buddhism is not the truth, it is a path to the truth and not only path. There is Advaita, Christianity, Sufism, etc. Truth transcends all of it and a real Buddhist understands this. However, Buddhism teaches more than a path to the Absolute, so there is more. Many Buddhists do get lost in the weeds, and many turn Buddhism into the goal, not recognizing the goal is beyond Buddhism. But this has nothing to do with Buddhism, only the seeker’s misunderstanding or in this case, the skeptics.
     

    Once one crosses the shore, there is no need to carry the boat on one’s back. 

  22. Posted

    5 hours ago, Batman said:

    There is no shtick. In psychedelic awakening you are forced to awaken because the substance hinders the mind or opens the senses in a way that disrupts the mind. Because of the psychedelic ability to affect the mind profoundly and rapidly, the awakening is usually deep and intense, usually accompanied by crazy emotional/energetic release. 

    The problem with psychedelic awakenings is many fold. One, it is only temporary, due to the effect of the substance on the mind. When mind goes back online, consciousness tends to fall back into identification with it. This way, even though it was clear in the trip that no solid or real identity exist anywhere in consciousness, the dream of being a separate self in a world with other objects continues. Second, if the conditions of the trip weren't adequate to fit the tripper (set, settings, dose), the psychedelic induced awakening can be too much for the mind or the body. The tripper might find himself confused, in horror, or just unable to grasp what has happened to him. The trip might even damage the "process" of awakening or transformation. Three, there might be an attachment to psychedelic awakenings, which may cause the practitioner to seek more psychedelic awakenings rather than the recognition of the identity mechanisms that causes seeking and repeated behavior. 

    Psychedelic awakenings should be regarded and considered as serious science of the mind, for all that it implies. This is not to say that psychedelic awakenings are not conducive to enlightenment or transformation. They are probably the best way to divert the regular seeking mind from seeking material objectives to a spiritual "journey", and show us that things are not as solid or identity based as we think. They can also be very useful under the proper conditions to elicit insights on the mind, emotion, body, flow, connection with others, and much more. And they are freaking amazingly powerful just to explore Consciousness.

    But when it comes to a fixed realization, shattering the illusion of identities or separation, a fixed shift in what consciousness take itself to be, they fall short. This is where spiritual practice comes in, a thorn to take out another thorn. Of course, the same egoic identity traps that hide in seeking psychedelic states/awakenings also lies in spiritual practice, if the identification process latches also to it. 

    So all and all, psychedelics are amazing, and in fact I see them as very direct and intense gurus for initiating the "path". But going back again and again to visit them is no different than going back to an ashram to visit the guru. It is ok if you just want to have fun with your guru, enjoy his company and sit with him. But if you are going back and back again expecting him to wake you up, it is just feeding the seeking mind. People can attend satsang or even meditate for years and not wake up, because they are just satisfying the mind. So it is important to see if this comes from a psychological fixation on some activity or just innocence, honest, play, curiosity, love. It is a matter of clearly seeing what is the motive for what we are doing.

     

    What a phenomenal write up. Love the guru analogy. 

  25. Posted

    Mostly because there is enormous depth to what can be achieved on this path that isn’t found by intellectually grasping the teachings. Just so happens what is achieved is a direct function of what is let go of. Most people, most likely including yourself, are still tightly clinging to a myriad of unconscious thoughts, beliefs, and orienting contexts that frame your sense of reality. Some may even be conscious. Spirituality is about letting go of all of this, and allowing right speech, action, and thought to arise out of this letting go of clinging and by extension, purification of craving, and by extension, extinction of ignorance around the nature of reality, moment by moment. Be careful assuming you understand. True understanding is not found in the mind, but in one’s direct ordinary experience, manifesting as the behaviors one engages in.